FailForward @FailForward@social.cleverlibre.org

@academicalnerd

Well, @namark's reaction is worded a bit harsh for my taste, but I agree with it. Mathematics is just a communication tool, not a language of its own. And indeed it's such by definition. It's a purely human construct, not a natural phenomenon. Maybe a good way to think about math language is to observe that definitions are just abbreviations for complex relationships capturing concepts we want to use as nouns and verbs and then we just relate them as in normal language. At the bottom are axioms which are (relatively) arbitrary symbolic statements which just so happen to "make sense to us". Math does not exist on its own. That's why it can be "pure" and therein lies its beauty and appeal to certain type of minds.

As a side note, when you speak about the tree-like structures of statements growing out of axioms (of e.g., set theory - which BTW is just a specific choice), you won't capture the most interesting parts of what can be said with that language: self-referencing/recursive definitions concepts (e.g., tree width) and non-constructive relationships, such as the proof by contradiction.

@namark

@academicalnerd

Welcome back :-).

> This is, ... , a rant. Maybe it will prove useful for
someone, ...

Good start of an opinionated conversation.

## Reaction summary

Good topic. My lifelong on and off obsession too. Good start. Let me grab a coffee... :-)

Seriously, this is a topic worth exploring further.

## Notes

Digital nihilism --> Digital pragmatism?

> Do you really need an app for that?

For a long time I resisted apps on my phone. My private reasons, mostly security, privacy, etc. I discovered that the resistance was sometimes warranted, but some phone apps are better than replacement in pen and paper, or general purpose thin client (e.g., browser). The thresholds for me are: 1. either a significantly lower friction than alternatives; or 2. use anywhere, anytime; or 3. new mode of operating in the world.

Examples of 1:
- habit inducing app (Loop Habit Tracker) - if the thing reminds me it's easier to comply than to actively check (and forget to check)
- 2-factor auth/digital identity with my e-government (yes, I gave in finally and it improved my life hugely)

Examples of 2:
- mobile banking
- e-mail client as a read-only comm tool
- IM client(s) for quick and dirty comms under way
- quick pragmatic tools like MS Lens for scanning documents

Examples of 3 are mostly digital content consuming apps mostly. Firstly, I read a lot. I used to waste time on this. Then I discovered Text-To-Speech conversion and it changed my life. Several months ago I decided I want to read more books, but I do not have much time to read really and many books ended up drying up on my desk. I switched to Audible/audio books and it's a revelation. Over the last 3 months I read more books than last year altogether. I intend to continue with that. Finally, I value listening to meditations. Without mobile device it would be a huge hassle for me.

Todo lists, note taking, etc. I totally agree with you.

> And your life, personal notes and planning are loosely organized and won’t fit a nice layout of that app, no matter how hard you try. The entropy will take over, partly because these devices were not designed for it. If you can’t do it with spreadsheet and a barebones txt file, you are probably better off with pen and paper.

The key observation is that none of those methods work on their own. It started to work for me after I realised 1) what I actually want and need in my life; and 2) how those activities like note taking etc. support it. From that the technology/tooling flows easily.

@hellquist This one is fun too. I think the contrast of the whole tree+sky composition is well amended by the subtle addition of the trampoline. The effect is: 1) lovely!; 2) wait, this is some suburban paradise?

For a subtle intellectual joke I suggest to add something small but subtly disturbing to the lower part just a bit right off the centre - right under the tree branches. Say a forgotten empty bottle of beer. Or an abandoned child's bicycle, perhaps a doll. Maybe shoes, or some clothes. It would create a slightly unsettling third step to the story: 3) something sad/bad happened here?

@hellquist Striking. Looks like from a dystopian sci-fi movie. The Truman Show crossed with Zombie apocalypse - just wait to see who's coming for you from behind that horizon hill!

@hellquist Or it could be also šeļma, the naughty feline in Latgalian (I did not even know such a language exists!)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%A1e%C4%BCma

@hellquist Selma is Šelma = Beast in Slovak and Czech. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%A1elma

Pronounced "shelma" with "sh" as "shaman".

@piggo

When we are books exploring these concepts, you might as well try this Permutation City by Greg Egan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permutation_City

@cpsdqs

> You may need to have some irrational inner talks with yourself to help you get to a rational place. The key is not to wallow and get stuck on repeat too much.
> -- somewhere

@hellquist Welcome back.

@z428 This is good. I like it. Thanks a lot.

@GustavinoBevilacqua @jens

Yeah, the feeling is definitely there. From the moment we woke into our heads (12-15?) until about 35 our mind's eye was always fixed on the future. And then slowly it started to shift. We didn't notice first, but a bit by bit, for somebody with a commemorative mug, for others in different ways, it started to dawn on us that we not only have (bright) future, but we have an interesting past too. And then it hit me: looking back at the last 20+ years I was awake in my own head, I achieved plenty. And all that while starting off quite stupid (naive?). If I am lucky, I still have maybe twice as much productive time. How much can I still achieve? I am not as naive as I were, maybe slower, not invincible anymore, but I can navigate the swamps of life now. This is the time life starts to make more sense. It feels very exciting.

@z428 No clue what filters you use, but your photos always fill me with a mood of magazines from 70's and 80's 🙂. It always mildly cheers me up. Thanks.

# Charlotte Jane, Refuge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xiXZ4sgigI

> There’s a darkness inside
> I can see it on your face
> How d’you feel?
> What’s been on your mind?
> I’m just trying to help you
> But you don’t want my refuge
> ..
> _... you’ll never learn to fly
> If you push it to the side_
>
> -- Charlotte Jane, [Refuge](https://genius.com/Charlotte-jane-refuge-lyrics)

@skells Ad Germans: go on, go on! It's inspiring some thoughts here .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6YAN3ykFKY

Pippo Pollina - Chiaramonte Gulfi. As always with Pippo, cheerful.


Lyrics in DE/IT: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/chiaramonte-gulfi-chiaramonte-gulfi.html