JonKramer, CIS-HET @JonKramer@social.cleverlibre.org

@CosmicJellyfish @joat @godpod I suggest blocking them.

@joat @jamesmarshall @godpod how many ultimate decision makers are there in a company selling widgets, employing 2 million people, if the company is privately owned by a single person? How many if the company is own by 2? Or if it is owned by all 2 million employees? Do you not understand how ownership can affect management trees??

@joat @jamesmarshall @godpod that wasnt an argument. That was a statement of fact.

@joat @godpod so why are you participating in a discussion you think ridiculous? I won't be hurt if you decline to answer my posts.

But, if you wish, you are welcome to explain to me how billions of dollars in the hands of un named government employees who award contracts to their buddies and give them kickbacks for the graft, while bombing brown people around the world is an acceptable option, and possibly a better option to an individual billionaire who builds electric cars, or delivered groceries to me during a pandemic.

Your choice. I demand nothing.

@joat @jamesmarshall @godpod once again, I can't answer that without a very detailed look at the system. Under some systems you should be taxed at 99%, and the poor taxed at -100%. Under others, you should be taxed at 1%, and the poor taxed at 50%. Or any other set of numbers you care to present.

I can't give you some sort of etched in stone answer to your question. Not from a economic, ethical, or practical POV.

@gzuckier @aldente @godpod you asking me?

It isn't. That was the point of my original question.

@jamesmarshall @joat @godpod systems of management are far more efficient with lower numbers of investors. The decision making trees are far more compact.

@joat @godpod semantics. Not going to argue it.

@joat @jamesmarshall @godpod different topic. With no simple answer. It vastly depends on how those taxes are spent, and by who. To many variables. But... to attempt an answer, if you live in North Korea, no, you should pay nothing. If you live in Norway, you should pay far more. Because of they systems you would be funding.

@jamesmarshall @joat @godpod actually my goal was to point out that major capital investments are needed, and it is irrelevant if that comes from one person, a few, or millions. But, the more personally invested someone is, the less chance they will run the business fraudulently. And the more accountable the management is.

@joat @godpod are birch trees and pine trees both trees? If I say they are, are you going to argue I say they are equivalent?? Or can we accept there are obvious similarities and differences without long drawn-out discussions about the genetics of the two species?

@joat @godpod what exactly is being hoarded? Where is this substance located? Are there pictures, or is it literally just a number written on a ledger sheet?

@jamesmarshall @joat @godpod I can invest. I can toss $20 to businesses that I approve of. I can buy public shares in businesses. I can have my employer match funds in a 401K retirement fund.

You can do this too.

@joat @godpod yes, the US. And to top it off, in one of the states with absolutely the worst records of public fraud.

We are not Finland, or Japan, or places with less graft than in the majority of the 1st world.

@jamesmarshall @joat @godpod I defy you to build a supermarket chain, or a publishing house, or any other business with a massive investment. Often billions of dollars in investment, depending on how high tech the business is.

@aldente @godpod the power is the most worrisome, although I can theorize about a benevolent dictatorship, I have yet to see an example of one in all of history. The lack of transparency and accountability is definitely a major concern of mine. Although I can imagine, and have seen examples of state secrets that should remain secret.

@jamesmarshall @joat @godpod are you trying to say that monopolies are NOT created by the state??

@jamesmarshall @joat @godpod so don't complain about billionaires if you shop in thier businesses???

@jamesmarshall @joat @godpod here is the "good answer": yes, libertarians use roads and other services they pay for, without guilt. Because, they PAID for those services. This should also be blatantly obvious.

@jamesmarshall @joat @godpod monopolies are enforced by the state. I agree, that is a problem. Who do you suggest we arrest first?