Shamar @Shamar@social.cleverlibre.org

@marien

I can't speak French, but as an Italian I can find my way through it.

It think this is a very nice hack.

Très bon!

@DissidentKitty@radical.town @stolas@elekk.xyz @alan@mastodon.technology

I think the real news is that someone tested a scientific paper finding enough to spot one code bug.

If this will become an habit, we will see this sort of issues happening on a daily basis for a decade or so...

@grainloom

What exactly do you mean by "negative image of GNU"?

Are you talking about the lack of overall technical vision about the #GNU system or about something else?

@dthompson @cwebber

@downey

Yeah I don't understand.

If he has a history/legacy of abuse, people around him have a history/legacy of complicity in such abuses.

Each time they didn't denounce his abuses, they enabled each of the following ones.

So why I should feel better that the #FSF is now in the hands of such hypocrite abuse-enablers?

If these people were aware of crimes they didn't denounce they should be all processed as accomplices.

They should turn themselves in to the police, right NOW.
No kidding.

But if they don't, I have to deduce they are worse than #Stallman, either as enablers or as liars.

@grainloom

If a free software project has any aspect you don't like, it deserve to be forked.

#hackers welcome any #fork.

Only #OpenSource people who cry of community breaks and such bullshit. After all forks reduce their #market share!

As for women, trust me: I care A LOT about them. I have three daughters I love most, and I always carefully consider what is good for them, in the present and in the future.

Is a homogenous world were all people talk the same good for them? Would it be safer?

The answer is simply No.

In Italy we have had a history of private abuses easily mixed with public #hypocrisy to cover them.

In a world were people cannot TALK about something, such thing do not disappear. It just become invisible and more dangerous. Public #moralism just raise the stakes for powerful people, but it doesn't fix any perversion.

Since I want to effectively protect my daughters, I want a world where people with the weirdest opinions can discuss them while criminal like #Epstein are rapidly and easily denounced.

Don't judge books by their cover: a project (or a man, or a woman or a company or..) might LOOK nice to a woman while being creepy and dangerous. And the converse can also be true.

I prefer places that are dangerous and look dangerous too.
They are LESS dangerous.

But censorship and mob lynching of opinion won't make things better.

@dthompson @cwebber

@grainloom

You seem to assume that Politics is easier than Programming.

It's not.

Programming is way more funny.
And way less frustrating.
And I say this having experience of doing both, either separately or at the same time.

I don't know if #RMS code at all today, but he never stopped fighting for (his vision of) #FreeSoftware.

And despite the fact that I don't entirely agree with him on such vision, I call bullshit when people say he did nothing for #FS in the last 20 or 30 years.

He did a huge lot.

But it you only measure work in term of SLOCs/hour because you internalized the corporate perspective of #OpenSource productivity, obviously all his work is worth nothing.

But beware, people who adopt such perspective are going to be exploited.

If all it matters to you is X (with X being any easy to measure scalar, such as $, €, SLOC/hour or whatever), you stop being an hacker, a user or even just a citizen and you become a #robot, a #slave that can be easily #used through software.

@dthompson @cwebber

It feels neglected and wants to leave.

I didn't intend to hurt your feelings, #Java...

(🤣)

@eqe

I think you misunderstood my words: I'm not a RMS fanboy and I'd have to ask you to not project the issues of the tech culture of #US over me: I'm from #Italy and I'm very good at dealing with my emotions! 😉

But my analysis of what happened is just political.

Let's break your arguments into three blocks:

1. lynching is killing
2. it's lynching only if the victim is without fault
3. it's lynching only if it's the action of a powerful group

Let my now debunk each of these arguments.

1.

As I said it's not a physical lynching as the people who joined the mob were way more cowards than the cowards of KKK.

It was a cybernetic lynching.

2.

As for what #RMS actually did, he wrote a mail to a mailing list expressing his own opinion on a matter. A careful read of that mail shows that all the outrage that followed was misdirected: of all the disgusting opinions of RMS over years, this is NOT the worst.

He didn't defended Epstein or rape or anything like that.

Yet, I don't think that the consequences of something RMS (or me, or you, or anybody else) wrote should be a public international cybernetic lynching.

If you say that RMS deserved it anyway, you are just negating him universal human rights. In particular article 18, 19 and 12.
I guess that if he was from any of the minorities that fill US people remorse (women, people of color, lgbt+ and so on), you would never argue that one of them deserve to be lynched for what they said! You would say (correctly) that they deserve a due process IF they did any crime.

And indeed, if he did any crime, he should processed FOR IT (with all people who covered him), not lynched for something else.

Now, even if RMS is not a saint (and he is not), and even if RMS can be considered a powerful man he actually belong to an oppressed minority, just not one of the one people feel remorse for: he is a #hacker. His weirdness does not help #mainstream people to empathize with him, so that a pretty reasonable person like you might forget to consider he IS a human being with universal rights like any other.

And removing a weird #hacker from #FSF, weakened the position of many other weird hackers that, while completely different from RMS himself, are just as different from the mainstream.

And this led us to 3.

When something irrational and bad occurs in Italy, we are used to ask ourselves "cui prodest?", "who benefit from what happened?".

To whom RMS was a pain in the ass? Fine, to many. 🤣

But who had the #Power to mount an international lynching like this without the mob even realizing they were violation the universal human rights of RMS?

#GAFAM.
All bound to #OpenSource, they need to get rid of #FreeSoftware.

And do you know what is funny?

Those naive (dumb?) heroes (cowards?) that joined the mob with their digital forks and pitches, will never accept of being naive cowards and they will try as hard as possible to rationalize and morally justify what happened.

"Because he deserved it!" I can hear you.

Guess what? He didn't.
Not for THAT mail.
Nor for any crime he did, because he deserve jail, if he did any crime.

But RMS is an easy prey.
He is weird, after all.
And US passion for #inclusiveness doesn't include hackers.

If you were in the mob, please, open your eyes.

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html

@grainloom

Leading people means helping them move from a point to another.

Like it or not, but #RMS proved a great leadership in #FreeSoftware: he didn't just give it a definition and an identity, but turned it in a powerful and positive political movement. He was being so.successful that #OpenSource was created to embrace, extend and estinguish such movement.

Thank to #OSS we now have #SaaSS, browsers that are more complex to #hack than operating systems and the four #freedoms have been reduced to privileges.

However #Stallman intransigence was still a pain in the ass for many people who want to finally absorb free software in open source.

Without Stallman at #FSF, #GAFAM are way stronger. Now THEY will lead!

Will #Google be creepy with women?
No!

Does Google care about women?
Sure! They are valuable data cow to milk! Great workers! And useful conumers! Just like men.

Same for #Microsoft, #Facebook and friends! They will be great leaders, if you want to be led where they want to milk you.

But I'm a weird #hacker. I prefer weird leaders. Because their weirdness protects mine. And yours.

Don't forget my words: nobody will fight for hackers' freedom. The gentrification process is running fast. First #Linus, now RMS... the next might be you!

@dthompson @cwebber

@jackdaniel@mastodon.social @eqe @dthompson @cwebber

Flip side of the coin: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2019-10/msg00021.html

Sergio Mattarella, President of #Italy rebuking Turkey's attacks in #Syria and even blames #Trump for his part in giving new life to #ISIS and destabilizing #Europe.

While standing next to Trump.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1184520841674940416

@eqe

No.

First, this HAS BEEN a lynching.
Thanks God, not a physical one, but a cybernetic one: misinformed people all over the world has been coordinated to shitpost him till they got his head at #FSF. But he has been lynched for WHAT HE WROTE. He hasn't been removed for his bad behavior with women. He hasn't been removed for his political use of his position in #GNU. He has been removed because of this "outcry" for what he wrote.

Now, if you argue that any of his behavior was so abusive that he alienated dozen of people from FS, without such behavior being illegal, then I agree with you: you should fight to change your laws to forbid such behaviour.

But if you argue that he should be held accountable for his #political opinions (most of which, I don't share) because such opinions alienated dozen, I think you haven't understand what free software is.

As I said, #programming is a form.of expression: as President of #Free #Software Foundation and leader of #GNU, RMS had the duty to fully express his weird opinions.

People who can't live in a pluralistic society, working with people who have the weirdest opinions (but do no crime), don't really want #freedom, not for everybody at least. So if people left the free software movement for RMS opinions, they did the right thing (at least at that moment of their life) since they weren't going to contribute to freedom.

I think your valuation error is well evidenced by the use of the "productive" word. You are measiring people contribution by their throughput, as if GNU was a corporation building products that will compete in the market.

It is not.

It's a Political movement!

The real issue with RMS is that he doesn't belong to any of the minorities that populate #US remorse. He isn't a person.of color. He isn't a woman. He isn't gay. And so on.

He is a #hacker.

#SJWs' passion for inclusion stop before of us.

We are too different to be included.
Too weird. We do not deserve due processes or civil rights. We not even #human to your eyes, I guess.

You want a bunch of nice, politically correct (aka hypocrites), people in FS. And RMS is not one of them.

@dthompson @cwebber

@downey

Yeah #RMS has this bad attitude with #opensource champions like those multinational corporations that control the #narrative of the #Web (and what you think)!

As for "more harm than good" it's a ridiculous statement: while I think he got priorities wrong with #FreeSoftware, there would be no #Linux without #GNU. And there would be no #GNU without #Stallman.

You are right this isn't a criminal proceeding so either he didn't do any crime (and those who lynched him violated his human rights as stated by article 18, 19 and 12, just to gain power) or he is (and all people who didn't denounced him are complicit)

@dthompson @cwebber

@dthompson

I noticed you are with Andy.

That's why I replied to @cwebber

I don't know #RMS personally and I disagree with him on MANY MANY things. Even when we talk about #FreeSoftware I think he is too moderate (and I'm a catholic Christian so you might guess by yourselves on how many other things I deeply disagree with him! 😉).

But the arguments of Andy are poor. As the arguments of the crowd that got is head at #FSF.

#Software is a form of expression, so software #freedom IS freedom of expression.

Andy joined the crowd that lynched #Stallman for what he WROTE (conveniently misreading it, to be precise).

If you know that Stallman did any crime towards women, you have only ONE thing to do: denounce him and provide evidence to the police.

Each day you delay his trial is a day more you are accomplices of his crimes.

I'm very serious on this.
There is nothing else to do when you face a crime.

If RMS did any crime, denounce him.

Otherwise, please, stop this.

@cwebber @dthompson

Smell like there are several power games at work in #GNU and in #Guile right now.

And since I've followed all the drama around #RMS' mail and I've seen how a crowd of people lynched him for what he SAID, I can't say I'm shocked by this reaction from Andy.

I've read his words before and I see how he is trying to profit as much as possible from the shitstorm that is on #Stallman right now.

@kaniini

Where's the original blog post?

The most important program in my whole career.

🤣

http://www.tesio.it/2019/10/15/the-most-important-program-in-my-whole-career.html

@z

#Chromium is not much different from #Firefox: both depends on #Google money.

@yogthos@mastodon.social

#GAFAM controls #WHATWG too and #LivingStandards follow the predominant implementations (guess who is predominant) so, despite the rhetoric there is no openness (nor #Freedom) in such "Open Standards".

As for #W3C I think this comment express well the state of affairs since years: https://www.w3.org/blog/2017/12/whatwg-working-mode-changes/#comment-96140