🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@Springnat

1) its not a debt centric economy, money is invested and you gain, you need not go into debt.

2)the people at the low end do not hold money or any other form of wealth, likewise their wages rise to match the inflation on average. So they are not harmed by inflation. (as was shown earlier with the average hourly rate vs inflation chart)

> There is truth to the fact that encouraging people to invest their wealth rather than save it puts capital into the economy, but people could already do this with savings banks.

No this is actually the very point your disputing. Inflation encourages investment, you take that wad of cash and put it into the economy so it can work to build things and pay wages... putting money into a bank causes that money to be loaned out, so puts someone in debt on the other side. So in fact using the bank system to just sit on a wad of cash is a "debt-centric economy" where as inflation where people are storing their money in mutual funds or other low-risk investments is far less so a debt-centric economy.

@icedquinn @melovida @clacke

@Atlas_Khan

Great so your againsted fixed dollars and agree inflation is better than a fixed dollar. then we agree, all done here.

@melovida @clacke

@clacke

Never said anything of the sort.. poor people arent hoarding money, so they are not hurt by inflation. Their wages go up on average as inflation increases and their situation is mostly unchanged.

@melovida

@Atlas_Khan

And yes you can have it both ways where too much inflation is harmful and too little is harmful. Many things in the world behave that way, it is called non-linearity.

@melovida @clacke

@Atlas_Khan

We've already seen the evidence this is just plain wrong. We used to fix the dollar so it wouldn't inflate and it devastated our economy. Thankfully we stopped.

@melovida @clacke

@Springnat

Of course it makes it non-liquid... but we need to be clear on what that means. If your money is in an IRA then that means it takes a week to get to your money instead of 10 seconds. Thats fine, as I said responsible money management means you have some small amount of cash on hand (whatever you may need to cover you over a weeks time) and the rest is non-liquid but easily liquidated.

> IRA has a maximum contribution limit, that doesn't make it a great mechanism for savings.

Its part of a savings plan, not the only. You should be making the max contribution to your IRA if you make enough to do so, beyond that you use a regular brokerage account and ensure you still use low risk mutual funds.

> The way savings usually work in our banking economy is people used to put it into a bank, for it to be loaned out, and interest to be paid back on it to keep it above inflation, and even make a profit.
This wasn't a great system, but it was better.

You certainly can do that, use a bank and put it in a CD (long term) or high-yield account (short term) to just barely break even on inflation. But thats very irresponsible and ultimately means you will just break even on inflation and not benefit, which doesnt make inflation bad for you just makes it neutral. While most more responsible people will have their money in investments.

> A better system would be savings in a secure currency, or a strengthening currency, rather than a weakening currency where people have to run just to keep up with the devaluing of their money.

You can do that, but no it is neither good for the economy or responsible for the masses to do that. Some will who are just paranoid but the last thing we want is stagnant wealth people hoard, that isnt good for your pockets or society. Currencies that dont undergo low rates of inflation kill economies, and we have seen that in the past when we had exactly that with the gold standard.

@icedquinn @melovida @clacke

@toiletpaper

We are talking about inflation, not negative interest or even necessarily printing new money. These can be related concepts but need not be.

@icedquinn @melovida @clacke

@Atlas_Khan

> If you think that someone's wealth slowly losing value due to inflation then you fundamentally do not understand what economics are, or are for.

Wrong, inflation **grows** wealth.. it diminished fiat, big big difference. A persons **wealth** (so long as they arent hoarding fiat) grows with inflation doesnt diminish.

> Worsening the buying power of the dollar only hurts the Economy long run and all suffer except banks.

Again wrong, the buying power of the dollar isnt what is relevant.. everyone has more dollars with slightly less buying power. The overall buying power is higher not lower. There are effectively more dollars in circulation.

> keynesian Economics are shit.

This isnt about keysian economics, inflation is a good thing (when slow and healthy) in multiple economic model systems.

@melovida @clacke

@Springnat

I mentioned 3 options, 2 are long term (for retirement) savings: Roth IRA and 401K, they **only** have fees to withdraw pre-retirement. The 3rd an IRA does not have fees to withdrawl and would be where you put savings where you'd want access to it should you need it.

> Holding wealth over a long period of time is vital to the prosperity of the people, and making it accessible in the form of a stable currency is a keystone in that.

Yes it is vital, but not in the form of currency and no we do **not** make it available in that form (and never have), I have mentioned 4 ways you can hold wealth over long periods, all of which are healthy for the economy as they enable that money to build new wealth rather than stagnate. People hoarding money is not what we need, that is not what money is for.

@icedquinn @melovida @clacke

@Springnat

Yes, savings, for a responsible person, takes the form of a IRA or Rother IRA, or 401K, typically invested in stable low-risk mutual funds. If your eally want to keep savines as cash with garunteed returns you can do a CD which will still give you more returns than inflation but just barely (its not a wise investment but it is an option if you insist on holding cash for any reason)

@icedquinn @melovida @clacke

@icedquinn

They dont need to be bankers, they just need to know some basics, including not keeping large quantities of cash over long periods of time.

@melovida @clacke

@Atlas_Khan

When did I say money runs dont happen? Not keeping your assets s money though protects you from it. Golds value doesnt go down when money runs happen it goes up.

"People having to manipulate"

No one has to manipulate anything. Just dont hoard money, other than that your fine. Keep it as gold if you want something that is like money but relatively wealth stable.

You can keep saying inflation is a cancer all you want, but youll still be wrong.

@melovida @clacke

@Atlas_Khan

Never said your suppose to just spend money on anything.. No one should be buying fancy expensive shoes they dont need or other expendables. I said responsible money use means **investing** this means at a minimum a mutual fund, that IS using money for productive ventures...

Point is the **last** thing you should be doing is hoarding wads of cash.

No one with any money wants to hoard cash without investing. When inflations happens no one is running to outside countries to put their money in fiat, it just isnt what the reality is. Inflation means the price of assets is going up, anyone with half a brain therefore converts their money to assets (local assets), there is no reason to move their money out of country when the inflation is benefiting them here.

@melovida @clacke

@icedquinn

> if i put 100$ in a crate and come back in 2 years, i get less apples than in the timeline i didn't wait two years.

1) No responsible person puts a large amount of wealth in a crate for 2 years, first thing anyone who learns money management learns is you do not keep any more than a small emergency fund as cash, the rest should be in investments, at a minimum a mutual fund.

2) We dont **want** people keeping money in crates for long periods of time. That is devastating to the economy as it causes economies to go stagnant as no one is using money to advance knowledge or build newer, better, and cheaper things.

3) Money is **not** and never was intended to be a long-term store of wealth, it is intended to be a short-term store of wealth.

Therefore inflation is good on the above counts, it discourages people hoarding large piles of cash, ensuring a healthy economy, and ensuring everyone benefits from the growing economy.

@melovida @clacke

@Coyote

bOT DOWN MAYBE?

@10grans @dickmasterson

@icedquinn

No it doesnt.. your employer pays you the same wealth as inflation happens... Thus the amount of food people can buy as inflation happens remains stable (assuming there are no other effects at play).

Price of food goes up but as I showed the average hourly wage of the population also goes up by an equal amount. So you can buy the same amount of food post-inflation.

@melovida @clacke

@icedquinn

Exactly, when you say "de-abstract money back to what it really is: food" you are really just saying "wealth"... so yes, when you stop viewing the number of dollars you are having as meaningful and instead look at how much **wealth** you have then slow healthy inflation is good

@melovida @clacke

@Atlas_Khan

Saying something is so doesnt make it so. Yes its a good thing when slow, bad thing when fast as I've explained why.

No one saves by sitting on a huge wad of cash except extremely irresponsible people. You should have a small emergency fund and the rest of your money should **always** be in low-risk investments (a mutual fund at a minimum). Anything else is burning money and just isnt done except for people who dont know how to manage money. Moreover we dont want economies where people hoard money, that creates unhealthy economies as they become stagnant. So inflation discourages that and instead encourages people to use their money to invest and stimulate wealth growth.

@melovida @clacke

@clacke

> The reason inflation is considered advantageous is because it allows the people with the capital to automatically lower salaries without having to say that they lower salaries. Instead they can say that they just didn't give you as big a raise as the inflation rate.

While this sounds good, in reality it isnt true at all. Outside of price-fixing (basically minimum wage) the average salary follows inflation almost perfectly. The reason for this is companies dont get to decide a persons salary, market pressures do, so when inflation goes up hourly wagies go up to match 1:1. Attached you will see a chart showing hourly wages and inflation overlaid and you can see they are a near perfect match.

> In the same way, inflation allows government "room for reform" by automatically lowering the real value of any budget posts, so that every budget can be like Santa and increase spending on pet issues rather having to justify lowering spending on existing commitments.

Also not true. While inflation allows them to increase the number of dollars they spend, since it also means everyones salary goes up, and thus taxes go up it matches 1:1 as well. You have to stop thinking money is wealth, it isn't. Wealth remains relatively constant when healthy levels of inflation happen, all that changes is the dollar figure.

> Finally, inflation favors businesses that have debt-leveraged investment as their business model, e.g. banks.

Not exactly, while it helps both **people** and businesses in debt by devaluing their debt it does so by the same proportion that businesses which invest their capitol in things rather than sit on a wad of cash. So what you wind up seeing is that literally everyone who isnt hoarding benefits, those in debt, those who invest, little old ladies with a 401K etc.

> Or, to put it more succinctly: "disproportionate effects on purchasing power of the lower classes"

False by above mentioned points and data provided.. if the constituent points are debunked this conclusion also is debunked by extension.

@melovida

@Coyote

It would seem based on the story that my assertion was incorrect. Removing it from the blood does cure covid... It goes against medical teaching on the respiratory viruses as I know it and was taught, but the story seems valid.

With that said I couldn't find any real studies on it, just that the military did make this claim and that the news seems to have reported it without embellishment. Its possible the military is lying though, but I have no evidence of that.

@dickmasterson