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@realcaseyrollins I see, interesting... I wouldnt really know other than to say womens shoes run smaller

@FailForward Huh? Those schemes are already taxed at extraordinary amounts. Owning something and taking all the risks of loss that entails and then needing to pay half of all your incom as tax is simply unacceptable IMO and relies on the fallacy of money being a 0-sum game. The false idea that some people having more money must means others have less as a result.. its not how money works

@ejg

Sure, and that should be addressed, you dont address it by taxing assets and make such a dream impossible though, thats for damn sure.

@FailForward

@ejg

Sit on? That money isnt sitting in a big vault of gold he goes swimming in every day like duck tales.

He literally has that money in businesses employing countless people and **creating** new wealth both for him and the country.

Again money isnt a zero sum game, him having more doesnt mean you have less, in fact, it means you have more as he is ultimately using it to generate ew wealth.

@FailForward

@ejg

I would disagree.. I think the fact that you can never truly "own" your home, that even if you buy it you have to pay for it perpetually is very much disastrous.

A person should have the right to work hard, buy themselves a home, and then be free of that financial obligation, thats the point.

Taxing on assets, like a home, is just a way of saying you can never truly own anything, a government ill forever tax your assets and eventually should you ever fall on hard times financially loose everything you own and get nothing for it as it will all go to just cover the taxes you were unable to pay (and should have never hard to).

Yes taxing ownership of property is particularly heinous IMO.

@FailForward

@ejg

The very mentality that asset ownership need be taxed is diseasterous to say the least. It relies on the zero sum fallacy of economics for one.

@FailForward

@jlo

That's a scary precedence to say the least. The very fact that people think someone owning a lot is somehow a problem that needs to be corrected is already worrisome in its own right. Wealth is not a pie, someone having more doesnt mean you have less. Its not a zero sum game.

@FailForward @ejg

@BigSkyRider I would think it would be obvious.. you said "if it provides no additional protection, do we still have to call it a vaccine"... then you provided an image with no relevance to anything showing that COVID, like all vaccines, work by giving the same protections as catching the disease... Ignoring the fact that yes, it still protects you, if you never got the disease it is a way to be protected without getting the disease (duh!).

Hope that clarifies it for you.

@BigSkyRider What this post makes no sense... How is this any different than any other vaccine? They protect people who havent gotten the disease, they arent for people who have it, no vaccines are.

@freemo @ejg I agree with what @freemo points out. People get outraged about how rich somebody is. And that is true. Except huge part of that wealth is only on paper in the fluctuating value of financial (and other assets). But nobody pays taxes over their net worth increases, we pay taxes from realised income.

Anyhow, these concepts have issues. For instance where I live, it can happen that you own say 50 shares of a startup (let it be 50%) which is worth 1000 bucks starting capital, then the next day investor comes along, buys another half for 1Mio bucks and the third day you have the tax office on your neck to pay taxes from a wealth increase (income) of 999k bucks, while all along your cash position did not change at all.

What I am trying to point out is this: Whenever people complain about rich people not paying tax on their wealth increases, the real question to them should be:
1. So how exactly will you legislate it so as not to harm everybody along the way?
2. And suppose if we all pay taxes even over wealth increases which are only on paper (because the stock you own or control went up due to market fluctuations, or geopolitics), what will we do when next year a person's net worth actually decreases? Will the tax office reimburse us, or what?

These are just headlines to cause outrage, nothing else. What actually helps is to tighten up the laws about income taxation and also classification what constitutes income and what does not. If e.g., Bezos has a salary of 1000 bucks and that's all he lives off, he shall pay taxes as a 1k income guy. But if he besides that lives in a house owned by Amazon Inc, drives a car owned by Amazon Inc. and flies Amazon-owned aircraft in his private capacity, then those effects should be counted as his income too. There are countries where this is sorted (at least on smaller scale) better.

@kotovalexarian@liberdon.com

Then it also isnt stealing or evil if a big company takes your personal proprietary code and steals it either.. as long as your consistent.

@Vectorfield

@ejg That didnt answer my question.. where did this mysterious wealth growth that didnt show as tax income (supposidly) actually come from. The link you posted does not state it.

@kotovalexarian@liberdon.com Yes most people justify evading taxes as being good so long as they are part of the group allowed to evade the taxes.

@Vectorfield

We can apply it however we want really. To pick something arbitrary, intellectual property. Rich people all the time try to steal it from poorer people and block them in court. Then again there are countless people who have used unlicensed and cracked software too, probably way more than the number of rich people stealing.

No matter what measure you pick really youll find whatever the evil thing is the middle class are trying to do said evil thing just as much as rich people, they just arent as successful at it is all.

@kotovalexarian@liberdon.com

@Vectorfield

No I'm not talking about the potential for evil, but actual evil. Middle class people try to steal all the time, for example, they just get away with it far less often than a rich person.

@kotovalexarian@liberdon.com

@ejg Can you be more specific. What source of income does he have that is 25x greater than the one he reported and doesnt show as income?

@kotovalexarian@liberdon.com Because power doesnt make you evil, it simply gives you the ability to be successful at the evil things you do.

If we are going to talk about tax evasion as one metric of evil, for example, you will find lower class tend to evade taxes just as much, probably way more so really, than rich people. I cant tell you how many people I know work under the table who are middle classed.

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