@datatitian I have no eggs in this basket but I could potentially help you debug the system. First step is to dig up all the relevant logs and get the actual error at play so someone can diagnose the issue.
Worst case scenario you can always just restore from your hourly/daily backups. If you dont have those you probably shouldnt be running any service publicly until you learn how to do so safely for your users sake.
@Vor If they still disagree try a third planning software and that can help you narrow down which of the two has the bug.
@Vor Let me know what you find.
@sean yea I understand the frustration. But taking QOTO for example, we have dozens of extra features mainline mastodon rejected. Many of them (the ones I didnt code myself) were just pulled from rejected PR I cleaned up. So often they will live on somewhere.
@Vor I just checked, OSTC does in fact run the *c varient, same as the garmin... One of them clearly has a bug and that is worrisome.
@Vor If two planners both running the same deco algorithm with the same Gf are giving you different results then that is a serious problem, that suggests there is a bug and one of them is wrong. Is it possible the other one is uing *b varient? That is the only way i could see for it to be explained without it being a bug.
@sean To be fair even if your idea is a great idea, ideas dont mean much. Submit a patch or if the patch wont be accepted fork the project. Thats the beauty of open source. Don't get mad, fix it.
@Vor The garmin uses Buhlmann ZH-L16c which should be the same as your OSTC (unless thats the *b varient)?
Any reason to think these two would implement the algo differently?
Do you have a preferred algorithm? RGBM seems ok, and pretty close to VPM in terms of the suggested dive plans. So I dont mind diving with it. But I am always a bit untrusting of an algorithm designed for a specific commercial entity and not open to the public for scrutiny.
@valleyforge "the 2nd amendment wasnt meant to cover modern weapons"... ok, ill take a dozen hand grenades please :)
This person wrote their thesis on 18th century hand grenades. I might be in the wrong field.
@robryk Also keep in mind most of this is moot as I'd run out of gas LONG before 8 hours is up anyway.
==Invictus==
> Out of the night that covers me,
> Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
> I thank whatever gods may be
> For my unconquerable soul.
>
> In the fell clutch of circumstance
> I have not winced nor cried aloud.
> Under the bludgeonings of chance
> My head is bloody, but unbowed.
>
> Beyond this place of wrath and tears
> Looms but the Horror of the shade,
> And yet the menace of the years
> Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
>
> It matters not how strait the gate,
> How charged with punishments the scroll.
> I am the master of my fate:
> I am the captain of my soul.
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@robryk There is a lot of debate as to what is safest honestly and much of it is a matter of opinion. We have multiple algorithms and people seem to have varying opinions on what is best.
Consider the same dives on a buhman deco algorithm (the earlier numbers I gave was using the VPM model). With the ideal gases your deco has now become closer to 3 hours, but with just air your deco is 8 hours on a buhlman model.
So using air you are kinda in this area where one algo tells you you are going to die and the other says youll be fine. The margins between algos are much less when using ideal gases.
While this doesnt clearly explain WHY there is a greater risk it does sort of show that there is a big risk there.
Now is spending that 8 hours of deco more risky than doing it with proper gases and spending 1/4 the time in deco, probably. You can follow an algorithm perfectly and still get decompression sickness and die, the risk is always there. The more you push the limits the more risk there is. A 400ft dive is always going to be more risk than a 100ft dive, and similarly a five where you are using gases that slow your ability to off gas are inherently riskier too.
It isnt about the time int he water though. I actually double my last stop at 20 feet when i dive even thought he deco algo says im good to surface. But thats because I'm spending more time off gasing.
Now if i am to speculate as to why longer dives on air is more dangerous I think the best explanation would be saturation of deep tissue compartments. Deep tissue has to go through several layers of tissue to off gas. So what happens is that while at first your shallow tissues are more saturated that moderately deep tissues as you surface your moderately deep tissues diffuse to both deeper and more shallow tissue, and they must off cas before the deep tissue will start off gasing. The longer it takes to deco the more the shallow saturation will leak into deeper tissue before reversing and off gasing into the shallower tissue. This takes a much longer time, and more time means more possible for error in the algorithm if your metabolism isnt as expected. All this is adding risk.
@robryk There is a lot of debate as to what is safest honestly and much of it is a matter of opinion. We have multiple algorithms and people seem to have varying opinions on what is best.
Consider the same dives on a buhman deco algorithm (the earlier numbers I gave was using the VPM model). With the ideal gases your deco has now become closer to 3 hours, but with just air your deco is 8 hours on a buhlman model.
So using air you are kinda in this area where one algo tells you you are going to die and the other says youll be fine. The margins between algos are much less when using ideal gases.
While this doesnt clearly explain WHY there is a greater risk it does sort of show that there is a big risk there.
Now is spending that 8 hours of deco more risky than doing it with proper gases and spending 1/4 the time in deco, probably. You can follow an algorithm perfectly and still get decompression sickness and die, the risk is always there. The more you push the limits the more risk there is. A 400ft dive is always going to be more risk than a 100ft dive, and similarly a five where you are using gases that slow your ability to off gas are inherently riskier too.
It isnt about the time int he water though. I actually double my last stop at 20 feet when i dive even thought he deco algo says im good to surface. But thats because I'm spending more time off gasing.
Now if i am to speculate as to why longer dives on air is more dangerous I think the best explanation would be saturation of deep tissue compartments. Deep tissue has to go through several layers of tissue to off gas. So what happens is that while at first your shallow tissues are more saturated that moderately deep tissues as you surface your moderately deep tissues diffuse to both deeper and more shallow tissue, and they must off cas before the deep tissue will start off gasing. The longer it takes to deco the more the shallow saturation will leak into deeper tissue before reversing and off gasing into the shallower tissue. This takes a much longer time, and more time means more possible for error in the algorithm if your metabolism isnt as expected. All this is adding risk.
@robryk I just did the math, a 400 ft dive with proper gases would be a 2 hour deco with 15 minutes bottom time. The same deco using just air would be 4 hours. So not as bad as I though but still not cool. I would also likely run out of air on standard tanks.
Less safe simply because your doing inefficient deco. More time int he water means more risk. It is within the algo, so "safe" enough, but its a riskier dive profile than it needs to be is all.
Jeffrey Phillips Freeman
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