🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@admitsWrongIfProven Which is why i said an unregulated market is not a free market.

@admitsWrongIfProven

> Of course they are not the same thing, they are two parties struggling for power

No i wouldnt say they are parties either.. while it is true the republican party is ont he conservative side of the spectrum, and the democrat party is on the liberal side, they are not synonymous. You can be liberal and against every principle of the democratic party, just as you can be conservative and disagree with every principle of the republican party.

@toiletpaper

@admitsWrongIfProven

unregulated market is not hte same as free-market... an unregulated market has no government-manipulation but is free for civil-manipulation and gaming.. a free market is a market which operates freely according to market pressures and is not manipulated by indivviduals and minimally regulated by government (enough to ensure the market stays free, but no more).

@admitsWrongIfProven

modern liberal and conservative are not exactly the same thing to me.

left vs right is one dimension on a multi-dimensional political spectrum (where other dimensions re things like personal freedom vs authoritarianism)...

I would define a modern liberal as someone who is on the authoritative-left of the spectrum, a conservative is on the authoritative-right, a libertarian is generally on the personal freedom side of the spectrum, and they are split between left-libertarian and right-libertarians.

@toiletpaper

@toiletpaper @admitsWrongIfProven

I dont think that was much of a change at all. The spectrum remained the same, free-market proponents are certainly more left than dictators or monarchs.. it was true then as it is true now to say, from the perspective of a dictator free-market supporters are left of them.

@admitsWrongIfProven

> So with the basic needs, i guess we agree that food and shelter should be available for everyone existing. You exist as an individual being, you should have food and shelter. So far, so uncontroversial?

While I would certainly agree with you on this point im not sure you can say its uncontroversial. I know many people, at least in the USA, who think some people should be left to fend for themselves, even if that means death.

Its achieved by following my exact set of opinions as a left-leaning centrist of course :) If that werent the case then I wouldnt believe in it :)

> Would a central organization or market actually select for useful tasks or just keep people busy so the peace is kept?

Im not sure what a central market is... you mean like a regulated market, the opposite of a free market?

@admitsWrongIfProven

So extremism side in terms of politics is easy to Identify... If someone has a set of ideologies where anything that is even slightly different, introducing nuance, is "the enemy" then you are dealing with someone on the extreme end.

If you are on the left and see centrists as evil as the right, and even the moderate left as evil, then you are probably an extremist.

Basically you just need to look at how well defined the walls of the silo is.

So yea extremism is easy to identify... now right vs left I think that is harder because you can be right and left in different categories its not an all or nothing thing.

For example communists, socialists.anarchists, progressives. are all generally agreed to as "left" though having quite a bit of ideological difference. Generally I'd say the common denominator of the left vs right is the left focuses on ensuring individuals power is mitigated (to some extent) and that the power and resources need to be spread out and not allow the natural processes of of concentration of power in a small group of individuals.

Therefore common themes among the left are redistreibution of power and wealth and/or the prevention of centralized power (as is the case of anarchism, which even sees the government as bad).

the right on the other hand seems to see a strong centralized power as ok, so long as it comes about through natural power-dynamics. Generally prefering free-markets and seeing accumlated power in a central place as both natural and good.

@LouisIngenthron Thats because they are against the beverage not the device ;)

@admitsWrongIfProven the original post is about political extremismand how it is at odds with objective consensus... any form of ideological political extremism is inevitably going to take this form, tbats just common sense. It also forms the core of horse shoe theory since when you become that radicalized it your ideals really dont matter since they are so absurd you wont ever approach them in the first place and instead devolve into contrarianism as the core.

@admitsWrongIfProven I am fine with defining left and right as a fun exercise. I just want to point out it is a tangent not particularly relevant or neccesary to frame the original post.

@admitsWrongIfProven for the record i find that the extreme left and right are almost nonexistant in most coubtries outside the usa, so there is less need to define it.

@admitsWrongIfProven you are the one who came in exerting extremism was hard to define, not me. We can debate left vs right too, its just making thwt distinction is not relevant to my post.

@admitsWrongIfProven tha ks to horshoe theory we dont even need to define right or left to define if your in the extreme of either.

@Biggles Thry seem to manipulate or reject science that disagrees with their stance on a lot of things.

A good example was covid, i was am a research scientist who worked on covid throughout the pandemic. Me and many covid scie tists pointed out criticisms of the lefts ideology and opinions along the way, for example ones ability to be reinfected with covid or the liklihood that a covid vaccine coukdnt produce herd immunity. I was fairly violently attacked by the left on these issues despite being well within mainstream science and even accepted. Of course the right had its own issues with covid.

I tend to find similarly dishonest antiscience when talking about guns, which the left seems to assert quite confidently without even understand the basic ideas they are debating. This is both from the science behind guns themselves and the analysis of the stastics and consequences of gun laws.

@admitsWrongIfProven i can define it with a simple drawi g, give me a minute.

@sebastian_hos I cant decide that before they exist and establish some policies to see if those policies disagree with our ideals or not. I dont intend to defederate with a nonexistant entity.

@admitsWrongIfProven Its usually only the people existing at these extreme ends who struggle to see the line where the extreme begins. Moderates on the left, right, and center are much better at it.