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@mk Again posting this just shows you need tor ead up ont he base concepts first... see how your quote doesnt have the word "wealth" anywhere in it... that should be a clue to you. Wealth is NOT money.

@mk Nop im sorry that is not how wealth works.. you are thinking int erms of "1 dollar".. dollars are paper, they are money, they arent wealth. If you want to understand these base ideas so you can understand the bigger one, you first need a better understanding of what wealth is. You can probably understand that best when you think in terms of one or two people, but you are right in larger populations it gets more complex, but the same principles still hold.

@Gbudd

Honestly even within a company it isnt a 0-sum game, it just might be hard to see. I think it is most obvious (though not limited to) companies that sell a product, particularly when manufactured from raw products.

If I am a lumber company then cut and cured lumber has more value than a tree the dead trees I buy.. so generation of new wealth is clear and easy to quantify,

@mk

@IAmErik

Ahhh well then I see where your understanding fails here:

> The money supply and one person’s share of it determine economic power.

Nope Wealth is not Money Supply. I can have 0 dollars and a huge pile of gold or other valuable goods and I'd still have a lot of wealth.

You cant begin to really approach what is being said here until you first understand what wealth is, and it is NOT the money supply.

@LouisIngenthron

> However, investment abstracted to the point of the modern stock market is just horse betting for the rich.

That is just completely ignorant of how it works (but common).. I just finished 2 years running a company going public and know the process intimately both before and after being public (going on the stock market)... It is literally the same as when you invest privately except it is regulated so you have some guarantees you arent being lied to.

It has all the same properties...

* By investing you get physical ownership of a precentage

*You get to vote in general assemblies for any company you own shares in.

* You have all the same power over the day to day operations and the board as you would in a private company

* The comp can buy back public shares or issues new ones, meaning it acts as an investment in the growth of existing companies.

@LouisIngenthron Its a short sighted view of money.. most people who inherit wealtyh d0ont go and stick it in a large vault.. the vast majority is invested, meaning it is working to create more wealth. So there is no reason to see it as a bad thing in and of itself.

@IAmErik No the idea that wealth grows slowly is a huge fallacy.. you are probably thinking of money supply, not wealth. Wealth actually grows quite quickly, it can also be destroyed quickly.

The logic applyes whether you have a million or a trillion, no matter how much someone has is never a reason for outrage. What a person does with their money is all that matter, some create tons of wealth, some destroy wealth, and others give to charity... most do some sort of combination of the three.

@LouisIngenthron Nah, that sounds just as incorrect to me. Having a lot of wealth just means you you may have longer-term do-gooder plans as well (just as you may have long-term evil plans). For example if you spend a lot of your money starting charities, you might recognize you do more good with their money than most. But if you spend all your money in one go doing charities then that is all the good you will do.. However if you invest some of your money in doing good, and the rest in generating more wealth, then long term you can do much more good.

So no, having wealth, even in the billions, is never an indication or red flag at all.. It means nothing on its own, you have to look at the persons overall choices.

@mk The original post is about wealth not being a 0-sum game. No matter how much some have that does not imply others had to have less for them to have more.

To put that in simple language. If the whole world had only two people, and one had X wealth, the other Y wealth, it is possible (and in fact fairly common ) that both values can increase over time. In otherwords, everyone can get more wealth without anyone loosing wealth. Over time that has overwhelmingly been the case as is evident by the fact that we arent still living in caves.

@mk Regardless if thats true or not, it still isnt about the OP. I have no objection discussing the bigger problem, but that would deserve its own thread, not hijacking one of an unrelated topic.

@mk

Ok, not sure why you keep insisting on a topic that isnt what the OP is about.

@mk

Ok, 4 points that have nothing to do with the fact I stated, and doesnt change the fact that what I said is true.

To your 4 points I am not saying they arent real concerns, they are conversations in and of themself worth having.. But you, as people often do, are blinded by trying to argue "Wealthy people are bad" which just pushes you onto unrelated topics since my argument is not "wealthy people are good".

@TruthSandwich Nah, thats not what the math says.. That said there **are** issues where bad people with money cause those effects (and it should be addressed).. but to claim it is the direct result of moneyt distribution is just not in line with the reality. The truth is much more complex than that.

@ech

Because politicians and parties dont really care about fixing things, they care about what hypes people up the most.. Having an evil villain does just that, plus it helps distract people away from their own evil deeds.

@mk

@mk There is no claim here that there arent issues that are unfair in the economy.. but the simple existence of rich people is not a red flag.

Just a reminder, wealth is **not** a zero sum game. If it were we would still be living in caves.

@stux thermal vents make the most sense. Precursors may have come from an astroid, but I doubt the life was created from it directly.

@stux Well its not about that, though that is an interesting point as well... Its more about the fact that we know based on the way genes are conserved and mutate that multicellular life must have evolved from the single cellular life we have here on earth, not the other way around. So any seed of life must have been a single cellular ancestors.

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