🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@TruthSandwich

P9 Rection... sounds like a good name for a gun.

@ted_dunning

Huh, what do you mean? Apach, MIT, and BSD are all examples of FLOSS licenses

@kilroy_was_here

@holgerschurig

Yea thats a good point actually... I'm leaning towards FLEAR s the organization name.. the other two domains might make sense as projects underneath it.

@kilroy_was_here

@TruthSandwich If you admit there is no two-party system ill donate too :)

@ambihelical From what I've seen so far that is certainly true.

@khird Well as I said, there is no doubt there are edge cases who might use the flag in that way... I dont doubt that at all... But when half of a whole country use it in a positive way the fact that a small handful of execptions use it explicitly for racism, while disgusting, should not reflect on the overwhelming majority of people who carry the flag and it represents something positive for them.

@ambihelical

> I won't argue about the southern pride thing, I don't know, but that seems to have a ring of truth in it. but is this statement reasonable?:
>
> "No surprise, as usual the racists are the ones trying to pretend they are the heros vilifying the good ones."

To an extent, if you get my mentality... Keep in mind I've been in deep with southern people, both black and white, and been debating this issue with them all day.. so im going from a fresh perspective here.

Generally the southerners are treated like stupid, ignorant, racist people to be dismissed by pretty much everyone else.. I mean its aweful... So here we have the "City folk" doing it again painting all the confederate flag wearing members as if they are KKK members and racist, and almost violently pushing that fact at times...

They are acting **very** racist towards them (white trash rednecks as they see them).. when in fact they are some of the nicest least racist people you could meet. so yea the supposid heros burning the confederate flag and calling them racist, ARE the racist ones,, and its nothing new to be racist against the deep south.. meanwhile the ones getting called the racists are actually the good guys in this scenario.

> Ignoring the use of the word racist for a second, I would argue that you are running up against the difference in education backgrounds between the north and south. When I first moved to the south, I was shocked to hear that most considered the civil war to be about states rights. I had not heard that before despite my father being from the deep south. I still think it's a bit of a cop out, since they wanted the right to continue a vile tradition, but that is the education that southerners receive, so I have to accept that background.

Its only a cop out if they say they didnt care about slavery, then its a lie.. but otherwise its true. A war, and this war in particular, is not about a single thing. It was about state rights, it was about slavery, it was about a lot of things.

Lincoln for example didnt free the slaves during the emancipation proclmation... he freed **only** the southern slaves, all northern states were allowed to keep their slaves... Let that sink in, one of the first acts that kicked off the north is that the southern slaves were all freed and the north kept all their slaves (in the states that still had slavery, this isnt 100% of states)... Doesnt sound like it was as much about freeing the slaves as people make it seem...

@khird only reason is i never met a nonsoutherner who used the flag, so i have no expience to call on.

In the few cases ive swwn sourthern flags on norther homes i just assumed they moved here from the south. But i cant say for sure as it was just in passing, i didnt know them.

I suspect if someone was flying it with no souther heritage then it ia reasonable its a underhanded way to show racism. But again never witnessed it to really say.

@takosix

Neither are you :)

Interesting fact of the day. One fundamental principle of the Sikh culture/religion is to feed the homeless. As such every single one of their temples has a community kitchen and anyone, even if you arent a sikh, can go in any time and be fed, no questions asked.

@lonelyowl Not so weird when you consider that even when used as a symbol of freedom, it stillhas a connotation of southern pride and southern independence... something other flags wouldnt have and therefore less appealing as a symbol for those int he south.

@lonelyowl

> I know that wikipedia is not always super neutral and accurate, but it says that the flag is definitely associated with racism and some other evil garbage, and has a long history of being used in racist context after the civil war 🤔

We all know it, like the USA flag itself, has associations with racism.. Its hard for a flag to exist as long as it has and not be. And sometimes Im sure its been used explicitly as a sign of racism, but that is the exception and doesnt say much about other people who fly it.

> But okay, i'll assume you're right, then what do they mean by flying that flag?

I have asked this of a lot of people. Usually the answers I get are some of the following:

1) As a symbol of rebelion against the government
2) Southern pride / heritage
3) Freedom

I'd say the overwheming majority was #2.

@lonelyowl

Say what you will, and i think its fair to question if the association is generally good or whatever.. but the facts are, these flags and symbols arent treated the same...

1) Virtually everyone with no exception who adopts the swastika specifically in a way that is linked with Nazis (it is a positive symbol in other cultures) uses it with racist intent.

2) The over whelming majority of southern people who fly the confederate flag do not do so with racist intent and are generally kind people who arent very racist at all.

To me anything else about if its a good look or not is scondary.. intent means far more than anything else, and the intent of people who fly the confederate flag is almost never a racial one.

@lonelyowl Yea nazi flag isnt remotely comparable however...

For starters the north was **extremely** violent against Native Americans. So there was not one side that was clearly the racist and the other the good guy. Native Americans almost entierly fought for the south since the north was still actively trying to wipe my people out.

Moreover the north still had slaves at the start of the civil war and the emancipation proclimation only freed the southern slaves not the northern (though the states did free them later in time). Largely pointing to the less than obvious divide, it was very much a grey area.

Redoing this poll due to a suggestion by @kilroy_was_here ...

What name do you like best for a non-profit #FOSS community for Ham Radio? Think Apache incubator but for Ham plus other open-source services and resources for the community.

FYI I have both the dot com and dot org as well as the hyphenated and non hyphenated versions of the below. Please mention which variant you prefer in comments.

#Ham #HamRadio #Amateur #AmateurRadio #RF #Radio #Foss #Floss #OpenSource #Programming

After posting this yesterday, and one person throwing a fit it made me want to check myself.

So I reached out to all my black friends who grew up and currently live in the south.. I asked them their impressions about people wholly the confederate flag.

Every single one of them said that they agree with what I said, the southern flag wavers were always the kindest people they met and while they have experienced racism (of course) it was never targeted from them and in fact they were some of the least racist people they have ever met...

No surprise, as usual the racists are the ones trying to pretend they are the heros vilifying the good ones.

@peterdrake Good luck, feel better... I've had it 7 times so far plus a vaccine (which i got before i ever caught it)

@freepeoplesfreepress

You guys have a website or anything? If so, and if you post it, I'll be happy to reshare it.