🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@musictraveler ditto

@ech

> 160k vs. 700k and “Jews made up something like 10%”: Wasn’t the Jewish population like 500k by 1940? Your 160k to 700k sounds more like 1930 numbers? I’m not sure where you got those from, are you talking about a specific region that is much smaller than ex-Mandatory Palestine?

Ok so you have to keep in mind, 1947 is only when the invasion was announced with official borders for the annex. The start of the invasion was the british takeover in 1920, which had started in 1917 witht he Balfour decleration where Britain proclaimed its intention to take over the region and roce the invasion of jewish people upon the population currently living there. That was the start of the invasion in one sense or another as the british used its power to **force** the palestinians to accept jewish-only immigrants on to their land while explicitly **denying** arab imigrants in an attempt to **intentionally** tip the balance in that region.

So over the course of time from 1920 when the occupation of the british began, until 1947 when the Jews carried on the invasion on their own (and officially announced borders they intended to annex) was largely when the influx began.

So here are the official numbers for those dates (Source cited at the end):

1922 before the start of the occupation/invasion by brits: 84K Jews, 589K Muslim thats over 7x more Muslim than jews.

1947 at the end of British occupation after intentionally trying to inflate the area with more jews: 630K jews, and 1.1 million Muslims. Still approximately twice the number of Muslims to jews.

> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_Statistics,_1945 – is this a total fabrication by the British??)

Yes, and no. The numbers there line up with what I said above... But its important within context. The British took over and occupied the land giving the native people no say in their own democracy, and in fact were intentionally diminished. Over the course of their rain they declared **publicly** their intent was to force millions of immigrants, jews, on the Palestinians against their objections. The numbers only rose to that level due to the British invasion and intentional injection of **illegal** immigrants into Palestine. So yes the ratio when from 7:1 to 2:1 in favor of palestinians due to an occupying force intentionally manipulating the population.

> When the partition was made, Jews were about 600k, 1/3 of the population. If I understand you correctly, you seem to be saying that number went from 160k to 600k in 1947. From everything I can find, this is not true? Instead, 160k->600k was gradual over a generation. (Do you have better sources than I do?

I cited sources for this. Population of jews went from 84K to 630K over the course of 20 years. This was intentionally done by Britain to manipulate the population in favor of Jews as they announced before their takeover that they would do exactly that.

> …uh, ok… I’m not trying to justify British colonialism here, not sure what your point is.

My point is that since the british was an invalid occupying force, and they acted contrary to the wishes of the citizens, those citizens are not valid since they were not recognized by the people who already were living on that land and were the rightful democratic body to make such a decision.

The brits cant just come in, force a bunch of white people on everyone and then leave and go "nope they have a right to be there"... like hell they do, Britain never had the right in the first place.

> fully agree. Something had to happen, though: there were 1/2 million Jews there and tons of violence. Do you think you could have done better?

I mean the brits are the ones who put those people there and started the violence... So yea something had to happen, they had to get those people out of the land they had no right to be on. If britain wanted to give refugees a home they should have given them part of britain, not someone elses home.

Citation:

Pergola, Sergio della (2001). "Demography in Israel/Palestine: Trends, Prospects, Policy Implications" (PDF). Semantic Scholar. S2CID 45782452. Archived from the original (PDF) on 20 August 2018.

@realcaseyrollins

The water and electricity has been off for much of gaza for more than 2 years (it was off the whole time i was there) due to Israel military intervention...

The only thing that changed is they decided to cut it off for MORE of the country than before... people have already been starving and dieing of disease en masse (why do you think so many international agencies are condemning them for apartheid?)

Whenyou understand the level of poverty and disease inflicted on them for many many years it might make sense why they are radicalizing. As I've said it is never moral, but when your people have been treated as they have for as long as they have it is completely expected. They are desperate, desperate people whoa re being exterminated will do crazy radical shit.

@Miriamm @ech @kjetil_kilhavn

@ech And to further drive the point home... attached is the border of palestine in 1919 as recognized internationally **before** the invalid british take over. AS you can clearly see before the British not only was it 100% Palestine with no large swaths of Jewish land at all (the jews were there but largely intermixed)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Palestine_claimed_by_WZO_1919.png

So basically the brits invaded, took over, told jews they could come there, displaced the muslims by about 10%, and then the brits left and said the Jews now owned more than 50% of the land.

Sorry but thats an invasion by any measure.

@realcaseyrollins

So you dont understand how highly dense urban ghettos without water or electricity for many months on end leads to tons of deaths... I mean you wont hear about it because its indirect, they dont have running water so they shit in the stream, the same stream that is now their only source of unclean water so they drink from it or wash with it.

You dont understand how it would be damn near impossible for people not to die from that? It just is indirect enough youll have a hard time quantifying it.

@Miriamm @ech @kjetil_kilhavn

@ech

To drive my point home attached is a map of the Jewish settlements pretty much the day before the invasion was declared (left).. AS you can see they re intermixed with palestinian/arab land, and this was all one country.

On the right, however, is the borders they declared in their own and intended to Annex in the invasion of 1947 and the war that followed. As you can see not only did they steal **significant** land that had no jews on it.. but the borders change the dynamic significantly since at the time Jews made up something like 10% of the population yet were given more than 50% of the land.

So yea its very clear they invaded and stole land and your narrative of them already being on the land is over the inaccurate.

#Israel #Palestine

@ech

> “Of course they came with weapons.. what are YOU on about? On may 1947 they and a group “ – came from where? They were already there. But you know this? I don’t understand what you’re trying to do here.

No, there were **very** few isralis already there. Prior to the invasion there were about 160K Palestinian Jews, some of whom chose to stay palestinian at the start of the invasion. Contrast this with the 800K arabs in the area.

Once the invasion was announced (that is, the international community of jews, along with the UN, declared they would invade an annex half of palestine for themselves), The resulting population, as part of right-of-return, skyrocketed.

As a result of this invasion by the end of the year in 1947 (the invasion was made official earlier that year) the invading jewish population had more trippled in that short time to over 630.

So no they werent "already there" 2/3 of the invasion were jews from around the world who migrated there to participate in the invasion either as a settler to the newly stolen land, or as military themselves. Often a bit of both.

> “they are illegal immigrants” Again, what? When Jewish refugees were coming in like 1925 under the British you’re saying that was illegal? Can you give me a source on that? Was it illegal before the British took over?

Yes, the british had no rights to allow **anyone** to come, they were occupying Palestinian territory and they had no right to allow anyone in or out, or to occupy the space at all.

So while people may have come thinking it was legal, since the British occupation is illegitmate (as all occupations are) and only the native people had any right to allow immigration, yes they were wholly illegal as an occupying force.

> “defend their land and prevent the invasion and annexing of their land.” and “they just decalred one day half the country was theirs and then went in and took it….” No? The British, eager to get out, had to leave something behind when they left, so they partitioned according to where people lived at the time, yes? (or had the UN do it) There’s plenty to say regarding how the partition plan should have been done differently, of course, but I can’t fathom how it is a “literal invasion”.

No, it was not where they were living at the time. Arabs and jews were intermixed throughout the country. Yes there were some towns for one group or the other in some cases, but those towns were often intermixed among the landscape.

Also, britain doesnt get to split up a country that already existed... their claim to palestine was as invalid as the Jews. The british didnt live there, only a population of citizens has any moral right to decide to split their country, and this is NOT what happened

@mur2501 yes, and as it changes it will effect how many and what frequency of photons it emits.. faster acceleration means higher energy adn higher frequencies of photon.

@icedquinn

It will always depend on audience, and you create your own audience.

I make sure i am quite vocal about my criticisms of both sides because I know it will trigger these sort of people and I WANT them to get triggered, be offended by me and block me... Over time it leads to those people disapearing from my audience and I can have a healthy non-toxic interaction with my followers.

I appear to be reaching that point as the noise from that side has went down significantly.

@Free_Press @nuncio @johnshirley2024@wandering.shop

@khird

That adds up with all the speculation and info... It just escapes way too fast for the electron to have a chance to follow it.. though apparently it does happen rarely and when it does produces X-rays.. which adds up.

@nuncio

Yup, they will just cancel you and scream at you for defending terrorists... which is kinda funny considering your calling people terrorists which apparently makes you defending terrorism because your calling the wrong side a terrorists or something.

@johnshirley2024@wandering.shop @Free_Press

@freepeoplesfreepress It sure is

@mur2501 No I cant see why it would, the electron's path isnt curving via a large scale magnetic field.

If would be a direct result of the electrons acceleration.. its the same mechanism that causes pretty much all light.

@nuncio

In the USA, and much of the world, criticising both sides is a death sentence no matter how valid it is.

@johnshirley2024@wandering.shop @Free_Press