🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@AT1ST

> I'm saying that the sheer cost of the renting of an apartment is really, really high, relative to any other thing one could reasonably buy to get to the amount one spends on rent.

Of course it is... Look how big your house is, and look at the resources you consume taking up that space month after month... Then look at how little utility a PS5 gets you and how little space and resources it takes up.... Of **course** a place to rent costs you several PS5 a month, it should probably cost you more, its remarkably cheap compared to something that is literally for playing games.

> And it's a monthly expenditure.

Right, as one would expect it to be. Again look at the amount of resources and utilities for a place to live compared to a toy.

> Hypothetically we can add it up and find that, in a year and 3 months, and...that money is enough to buy a small used sailing yacht (Apparently they can sell for $15K...or less.).

If you bought a 15K sailing yacht youd have to invest another 20K into it to bring it up to snuff minimum, AND you'd have to pay the fee to dock it, which would be about the same price as rent. How is this even a valid comparison, it literally winds up being about the same price range as renting a home. Many people choose to rent or buy a yacht and live out of it. In fact if yachts are so comparible there you have it you proven another alternative and affordable living option. QED.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@AT1ST

> It would be stupid, I agree - but it's luxury to be able to *afford* them.

ITs a luxury to be able to afford anything that has no utility. If i could afford to buy 10 $10 nikon phones every day despite having no use for more than one, thats a luxury too. But being able to afford $500 for rent is not a luxury, in fact that is cheap.

What makes something a luxury isnt the price, its the cost to utility ratio.

> I'm paying my landlord, in rent, enough for her to buy 2 PS5s a month...for being able to live in a 0 bedroom place.

Or enough for her to buy 100 nokia phones... again the fact that you can spend the money on shit you dont need is hardly an indication that the price is high. Yea its a luxury if she can waste the money on nonsense, so?

> How does that not seem wasteful luxury to be able to afford that place, because quite literally that is what my landlord can charge for my place.

Because luxury is when you spend a lot of money for something with no utility. It has nothing to do with how many PS5s you can buy.

> I'm saying that living with my parents rent free and then doing that is equivalent in cost. Per month. To live in a room.

Ok, and? Luxury has nothing to do with the cost of a thing compared to some other arbitrary thing.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@AT1ST

> More than one a month?

Buying more than one PS5 a month wouldnt be luxury, it would just be stupid.

> It gives off "Kid drove a Porsche into a ditch, and their parents bought them another one" level of luxury.

Not saying its affordable to buy multiplke PS5 a month, but its a poor measure of luxury. Might as well measure it in 10,000 rubber bands.

> For perhaps a more clear way to put it - this guy [ https://youtu.be/ifAm3Vp0JnU?si=EdI_uvcv8c6XH23N ] (For the purposes of the skit) is more "Fiscally responsible" than people who live in my city for 2-3 months, or the apartment my parents rent to people...for 5 months.

Being fiscally responsible isnt about how much you spend in a month. Buyng 2 ps5 every month at the same price as rent doesn't make it equally fiscally responsible as spending it on rent. Thus why the comparison is nonsensical.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@AT1ST

I mean a ps5 is hardly a luxury item.. Most kids I know who live with their parents were able to afford one. It seems like a kinda horrible comparison to start with. Luxury items are like gold necklaces or a porche, not a video game console made for children, teens and adults that almost everyone owns.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@AT1ST

> gets on my nerves when people say that the homeless or others just need to have better spending habits.

Like I said, its simply the truth (though the word "just" is wrong there, its only one aspect of the issue).

Like I said I have helped many people over the years get out of poverty and 100% of them all had bad spending habits as part of the problem. Often there are other issues as well, but that is always a huge aspect. You and people you know buying hugely expensive homes because they can afford it is fine. Doesnt change the fact there are very affordable options for those who cant too.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

Interesting fact of the day: There is a theory in various forms that basically goes something like: We literally can not see that which we lack the language to describe. It was largely used as a theory around color and stems from the fact that before we had as many words for colors as we do today people would describe things as if implying they literally couldnt see the colors that lacked words. For example int he Iliad and the Odyssey the water was described as "purple like wine" because we had not yet had a word for blue.

@AT1ST

Right, which is nearly twice the price of renting a room in the most expensive area in the USA (Manhattan)... Which would suggest unless your in Manhattan itself there are cheaper options, even if there wasnt a rent freeze. If I knew the specific area I'd probably find one as an example.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@AT1ST

> Are those the places that are often described as shoeboxes, sometimes not having a dedicated bathroom or kitchen?

They are rooms to rent in a home you'd share with other roomates. So you'd have a shared bedroom and kitchen, and one room in the home to yourself.

Yes you can pay more and obviously get much more space to yourself. But we are talking about affordability, that is a choice your making, and if you can afford it, enjoy. The point is most people get more space than they can afford, and there are much cheaper and very livable options until you improve your career.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@AT1ST

That adds up for a studio in some expensive cities. But again if 1K is too expensive for you then you probably should be renting a room, not a studio. The most expensive area in the USA to rent (manhatten) has rooms that are quite a bit cheaper than that. Go an hour outside of manhatten even cheaper still.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@AT1ST

Im not sure what those items cost. Are you willing to give the name of the area your in?

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

Of course it can. When did I say we were talking about independent physical structures? A home can be a condo for example.

And no i read, its you who arent reading what **I** said, and I agree, you arent a productive person to talk to.

@knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

Right, but not because the rent was simply too high, but because they choose places that were well beyond their means and were irresponsible and had far more space than they needed (often renting apartments intead of rooms).

For every single person I helped and is now out of poverty and doing well they had to adjust how they spent money and be more responsible. Once they did they had no trouble affording their rent, once they picked a place they could afford.

@AT1ST @knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

Yup, the definition of "housing unit" is exactly as I described it. A unit for living such as a home meant to house an entire family **or** person. So entire homes count as 1 housing unit, even if they house 10 people (a family)... as I pointed out.

@knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

As a matter of charity I take people into my home who are homeless and give them a place to live. This is usually a mutli-year process as I help them get on their feet and out of poverty. I have done this with many people.

Virtually every person I ever helped who was homeless had horrible money management issues and overspent on things they couldnt afford, including rent (before they became homeless)... Yes it absolutely is most people who are in this situation. Not surprisingly almost all of them were in denial about their habits and wasnt until they were back on their feet and doing well they realized their bad habits and corrected them.

@AT1ST @knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

What? Well there is yourproblem... Why would you compare housing units, which are design to house whole families, to number of people? One person isnt living in a housing unit for 4 people.

You count **living space** one person should be rending one small room not a housing unit. If you are a family with multiple members then you might rent a whole home, at most.

@knittingknots2

@AT1ST

> If this were true, people wouldn't be trying to rent in apartments in cities, and simply go for the places "1 hour or so commute of their jobs".

How ya figure? Most people dont pick the cheapest option, most people are very irresponsible with their spending and will get a place they cant afford because they want to be close to the bar or have a nice place. Thats part of the problem.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

> There are homes for rent within an hour of my job and they’re all very expensive.

Then if there isnt a single affordable option then the problem is your pay is too low (or the homes are too expensive), not the qty of homes. Still I'd be very skeptical there isnt a cheap room to rent anywhere in that area.

@knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

There are 357 million bedrooms in the USA and 323 million people... There is literally enough room for every single person to have their own bedroom. Since in reality we have 2 people to a bedroom in most cases we are talking about x2 more housing space than people...

Yea there are more than enough houses.

@knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

Most likely there is at least one home for rent within the hour or so commute radius for your job. If your claiming there isnt I'd be really curious what area your even talking about.

That said no.. what I am saying is if the areas you have to pick from to move to dont have job options for you there, that is a problem with the job market, it doesnt mean there arent enough houses.

@knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

No they arent. The convention ont he fedi is to keep people at the bottom and the first person tagged at the top indicates who you reply to.

Some servers (perhaps yours) will auto tag people, others dont do that, it depends on the software your on.

Even when it is automatically done the convention is often to leave it anyway as it gives an explicit indication as to who is directly being responded to, something you can do if you leave off the OP as the OP wont know when you are addressing them by moving their name back tot he top. So its a convention usually maintained regardless (though you dont have to).

@knittingknots2