🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@Demosthenes

The stand back and standby is a hard one to weigh.

On the one hand it certainly didnt make trump look good. On the other it was probably more effective, as you pointed out, of preventing pontential violence before it happened, than if he had straight up dencounced them. Not that that is an excuse, but ultimately I have to take actual actions as a first principle over what might have happened... In the end all i can say is i saw 4 years of extreme violence from the left on my front door step and to date havent witnessed a single act from the right. If i wanted to find actual violence fromt he right id have to look to the news to small off isolated incidents, mostly rare individual violence.

So in the end I judge each side by what they did, not the fear mongering they might have done.

@finity

@Demosthenes

Ok your missing an important point... While the left **is** the top concernw hen it comes to violence right now that does not mean "us vs them"... how can i be "us vs them" when i am not on the republican side either.. when it comes to violence the left are a huge threat as their actions have demonstrated, the right is not, that is true. But I also despise the right for a great many other reasons that simply doesnt happen to be violence (for example they rape our environment and it is killing us all).

So no it isnt an us vs them.. its a "I am calling the left out for being the powerboy of violence and intolerance for four years"..a nd its a "I am also calling out the right for shit it just is that that shit isnt the topic we are discussing at the moment"

While ic an agree both sides is are shit and no one side is the sole problem, I would not think it is fair or a good thing to reduce that to "every side is bad in the same way and to the same degree, both sides are to blame for the violence"
@finity

@finity

Again this demonstrates exactly why the left is the bigger threat in terms of violence based on recent behavior.

The lefts obscene violence is something that is so easily instigated it is automatic, and something that will manifest without any central leadership to egg them on...

Trump however said absolutely nothing to tell his followers to rise up, however he also didn't tell them not to, he pretty much didnt say anything, left it open ended (which admittedly may not have been a good choice by him) and even then there wasn't a peep of violence out of the right.

The way i see it you can try as you want to paint the picture as teh right being violent and the left as the good guys... but in the end actions speak louder than words

@Demosthenes

@finity

Again there was no shortage of police killing innocent black people dead during obama either.. I mean even worse under obama, obama him self directly ordered the murder of a 16 year old child who was a us citizen and a minority without trial or due process.. like the president himself literally ordered an execution of a minority... yet despite the issue of innocent blacks being just as prevelant under obama with obama joining in on some killing, not a peep of an uprising out of them... hell most liberals i told to dont even know about the boy obama killed despite it being public knowledge and Obama even got taken to court for it, meanwhile liberals keep posting about how they missed Obama's "scandal free" presidency.

If you really think what party has a president in office had nothing to do with their violence.. i mean, your welcome to think what you wish ill still respect you and all, but that seems awfully ignorant of the facts when you lay it out.

@Demosthenes

@Demosthenes

Fair, and honest, I can respect that.

All I can say is I dont think the numbers were quite that high.. though they were scarily high.

Even a 5% chance of civil war is far too high anda lot bigger than it sounds.

But I can say what ever the numbers were I was only ever scared of my life when it comes to the liberals lately and post election. I can also say I had my gun, my ammo, my food supplies and a bug out bag ready for a worst case scenario if it did happen. so clearly I felt it was real enough to be prepared.

The right worries me in terms of the fact that they are shitty evil politicians no better than the left. But when it comes to the people the masses, only the left make me feel my life is at risk for some time now. the idea of the right starting violence was never even a possibility in my mind, hell most of the right barely like trump.

@finity

@Demosthenes

I assume by this you mean it was your personal judgment call after giving it a lot of thought (not a bad thing)... i presume there wasnt any actual data or math you did to come up with the numbers? (if there is id be curious what that was)

@finity

@finity

Again im not talking abotu individual and isolated cases of violence particularly that on the news.

I am talking about 1) en masse violence, which may be on the news but which most of us saw across the USA in many cities 2) what ive observed in terms of personal violence ive witness with my own eyes as someone who is fairly neutral and despises any viewpoint on either extreme end of the spectrum.

Like i said most right-wing violence ive seen have been some individual cases here and there you hear about on the news somewhere in america out of 300 million people, and not even approaching the sort of numbers we have seen from the liberals in the last 4 years.

@Demosthenes

@finity

I am suggestiong that the liberals have demonstrated they are prone to violence and quick to violence when instigating factors come up they perceive as injustice. Yes I am implying that the election could have been an instigating factor for that, just as they continued violence since the last election, which has significantly been heightened as a result of that election and cyclically repeated every time a new perceived injustice surfaced is evidence of them being a threat...

You say "hey we liberals were not violent after the last election"... I say "the liberals have been consistently violent since the last election calling on repeated examples of what they see of government caused injustices of which they were acting out with violence in reaction to"

to be specific I do not think that it is simple as saying they lost an election, ergo they are violent. They are violent because they lost an election and are very easily manipulate by the evil people in charge of their party of choice, which means they were spoon fed the most extreme propaganda and bullshit I've seen for four years (yes trump sucks but the stuff they said was just absurd), and they bought the propaganda hook line and sinker to the point of becoming violent.

It is far more complex than a simple loss of an election, but that is the rallying point the propaganda used to rally the liberal masses into violence, and it was successful.

@Demosthenes

@finity

LOL its not that far from the truth. We are a particularly rowdy group and we do get absolutely crazy. But I was out during the super bown.. there is a very different atmosphere when comparing people climging street lights and crashing them down because their drunk and up to stupid destructive shit.. vs a bunch of sober people actively and intentionally trying to light building and cars on fire and putting people in the hospital when they see someone in a MAGA hat, and being a hair away from killing the dude.

@Demosthenes

@finity

no, we were discussing if we had to fear violence and an uprising, for whatever the specific instigating cause, from the left or the right...

To argue the fact that the left has been violent and engaging in that sort of behavior, but for "other reasons" is somehow evidence they were not a concern is weak at best. Not to mention even if it wasnt not entirely true, their perspective of seeing the current government as authoritarian and evil almost certainly gave rise to them being much quicker to engage in uprisings over perceived injustices than they would under some other president.

There was no shortage of innocent black men being shot dead by police under Obama either, but we weren't seeing the same sort of reaction back then because they werent being spoon fed constant propaganda about living under the modern day hitler.

@Demosthenes

@finity

I live in philly, for many months out of the last 4 years the skys have been black with smoke as openly liberal crowds burned down buildings, and cars and homes. I've seen mothers holding their children in the streets in hysterics as mobs of people continued to incite violence all around her...

Never in my live have I ever been a witness to such massive and repeated violence on a large scale as I have the last 4 years. Cant say I've seen a single incidence of violence from the right since Trump lost the election or before if we are talking about actual en mass or face-to-face violence. Only exception I know about are a handful of cases that have showed up on TV and almost entirely individual violence, nothing even close to what I've seen on large scale from liberal mobs.

@Demosthenes

@Demosthenes

Yea obviously any call to arms would be most effective and stand the best chance of working if it were now, not 4 years down the line when people stop caring and the liberals constant squaking about him being as bad as hitler is overshadowed by Biden whom they elected, our first segregationist president in living history. Obviously they they have lost all credibility to call one many hitler for four years and replace him with a segregationist.

That said lets not forget how george bush changed in 4 years following his presidence in the minds eyes. Liberals were crying up and down about things I agree are even legit very damning things like the patriot act and water boarding, he was the liberal's idea of hitler then. Now I see my mom and other democrats posting pictures of him and Michelle Obama being BFFs and saying how cute it is. Second he wasnt in office the whole "He is hitler" nonsense was a distant memory.

Just to be clear I dont like bush, I dont like Trump... I would never support either. But I would also be just as disgusted with myself if I supported someone like biden, more so given his nature and pat behaviors. I am far more ashamed to have Biden as a president than any president we have had in the past (though Trump would be #2 on that list after biden).

@krruzic

@Demosthenes The difference here is that trump has now had the chance to call people to arms to test your theory if those fears were true. he has not, it has now been demonstrated such fears were not founded.

However your fear of liberals rising up and biden being the one who called people to do violence instead, is only waning because they won and such an ultimatum never needed to be tested in the first place.

So in one case you now have proof they were not going to rise up and be violent, as they have demonstrated with their actions, and the other group you have no evidence to support those fears are at all unfounded and remain unanswered.

So even so the logic persists that your stance shows something very important.

@Demosthenes I think it says a lot if the assumption is that if liberals loose an election they might get violent to the point of killing and starting a civil war and now that the repuclicans lost there is little or no fear of them rising up in violence in the same way and starting such a war....

To me the take away from that stated truth is probably a lot different than most people would think :)

@Demosthenes keep in mind QOTO has one of the highest peer count of any server (I think top 20 or so)... which means we process a lot of data from peers. We also run a relay. That means we need some bulky hardware to manage it and occasionally there can be backlog in general where i see delays in the admin panel. It doesnt seem to effect the other timelines but this is likely an artifact from that since the federated timeline is pretty much the firehose of it all.

@Demosthenes see my reply. federated timeline is high volume and processed in parallel by multiple threads. This can sometimes get one thread to get behind another by a little bit in theory, though I have never experienced it.

@Demosthenes if you mean why is it outdated, its because you had to click where it says you have more toots. you can make it autoupdate if you want, its a setting and you have it off.. but if you mean why are the toots out of order, that I havent experienced but I dont use the federated timeline. Most likely its just due to the volume compared to having so many threads.

@Demosthenes you mean specifically why are rthe out of order?