🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

I love it when an algo finally clicks and i realize how to implement it... 3 pages later...

@pganssle in my case its a performance concern. I am basically implementing a pass-through array cache that remembers balues read from the underlying array-like object and stores it in a local array it needs to know what values it has seen though which makes it quite complicated as it would need to save ranges of seen values. Whole point of such a cahce is performance.

@pganssle Well having your code not be slow enough to force you to use it is, of course, not that uncommon. though in those cases your code was probably still significantly slower than it needed to be... But as i said it isnt **just** about code performance it is also about code complexity. Even if you never needed the performance improvement it would have forced your code in many situations to be more complex and bug-prone then it needed to be.

In terms of code elegance pretty much everyone has hit it if you ever needed a map where the keys had a sorting order (sorting it yourself every time you modify the map is added code and prone to issues).

In terms of performance you'd only need it if you needed a sorted-key map and that map was particularly large and needed to be re-sorted often.

@pganssle And yes, Treemaps and Navigable maps in most languages are backed by balanced red-black trees underneath or something very similar. So if you've ever seen a sorted map/dict in a language it was likely a red-black tree.

@pganssle Depends what you mean by "need". Obviously you could always roll your own Treemap so in the strictest sense you never truly "need" it.

But presuming you are relatively active coder I can guarantee you that you have been in positions where having it would have either (or both) made your code simpler and/or more efficient.

Chances are you accomplished the same end result by either using a hashmap (ordinary dictionary) or a hashset, and just repeatedly sorting it by calling a sort function every time you needed a sorted version of the data (which you may have even done after every new insert in some extreme cases). Which means inefficient code (often significantly so) and more lines of code and more logic than you might need. Not to mention the potential for all sorts of issues on top of that if it is a multithreaded environment.

I have used and needed Tree maps more times than I can count though could have hacked around it easy enough if i had really wanted to.

@jojo

You are such an instigator, lol its why i like you :)

@wowaname @leyonhjelm @p @Zalzen @sjw

@p

I was talking to @LuKthu, not you. stop pretending just because you happen to be in the thread somewhere that every message is addressed to you, and then start drama over it. No one cares about your little drama show move along.

@LuKthu

@p

Seems you are correct and I was mistaken on that part. didnt notice the other user added you in before I replied.

@LuKthu

@LuKthu

I offered to bury the hatchet and treat each other respectfully last time, shake hands and move on. As I have in the times before as well. But he seems intent on perpetuating nonsense for no reason. The offer remains of course, but its unlikely at this point he will take the offer.

See the following message:

https://qoto.org/@freemo/105451359584573844

As for you, dont worry about it, he seems intent on starting drama every time he sees my name, regardless of if you or anyone provokes him. Your good.

@p

@Ademan

> do you need one for reasons other than performance?

Yes and the performance difference would be very significant (so much so it is worth the extra development time)

But it also has the tendency to make code much simpler in many cases as well, which doesnt apply to me in this case, but also a valid reason for the need in any language.

> how much active maintenance does a basic data structure really need?

Probably not much but when I see something with very little time invested into it I worry it may be slow to fix bugs or not well flushed out. In this case I could be wrong (I am taking the risk and using it so we will see).

holy hell python doesnt even have a built in red-black tree implementation, just a hashmap style Dict... There is a third party implementation but the best one is something like 8 months since the last release and the repo only has 6 commits...

How do people even survive in #python?

@p

I'll say it again and I'll say it slowly....

**I**...**didn't**...**contact**...**you**...

You contacted **me**

So unless **you** need something please go carry on somewhere else.

@LuKthu

@p

Lies as usual, the first time either of us tagged eachother was you, tagging me, in this message:

https://freespeechextremist.com/objects/d9d3c235-526e-4cd7-89e7-9bd013fc1c65

So no it didnt go LuKthu tagged you, then I tagged you, then you responded... It went... LuKthu tagged you, then **you** tagged me, then **I** responded.

Not that I particularly care, but your penchant for lying to try to start shit all the time is getting out of hand. I had no intention or interest in you entering the conversation, and at no point did I tag you until after you tagged me (which you were brought in by LuKthu).

@LuKthu @jojo

@p

No I couldnt see it because i was viewing the post directly on FSE.. I was loggin in through the terminal (text only) as i didnt have my 2-factor with me to login via the web interface. To view the image i was following the link in the text to the post to try to view it and could not.

Always trying to start trouble I see, you should have left me muted and done me the favor.

@LuKthu

@marathon I already spoke to snder, all good I figured out the deets, thanks though.