🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@wiggles

Who is giving them a category? We are recognizing the nature of sex as a continuous thing rather than discrete.

With intersex being 2% of the population if we use the broadest definition of intersex I'd say thats more than common enough to understand and describe it.

@realcaseyrollins

@wiggles

Sure thats easy, there are plenty of cases. Here is one of the most extreme cases I know of, this individual developed physically as a woman (appeared woman) yet had male genetics. So is one of the more extreme cases of intersex. Yet this person was completely fertile (which is unusual as usually its people with less extreme intersexing that tend to be fertile):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190741/

@realcaseyrollins

@wishgranter14

Jesus christ please try to keep up... thats the whole damn point.. as I explained it was intended as an absurd example to illustrate the absurdity of what I was responding to... pointing out that her infertility doesnt change her sex **was the point of what I said**..

Glad to see you at least caught up, finally.

@wowaname @meowski @ArdanianRight @SwampWitchHerbalist @a7

@wiggles

Incorrect, while an intersexed person is less likely to be fertile, to claim that a fertile healthy person can **never** be intersexed is patently false. Intersex people can be perfectly healthy and fertile, they are just less likely to be so than a person at the extremes of the spectrum.

@realcaseyrollins

@wiggles

No, and it certainly doesnt imply that here. Spectrums just imply a variable is continuous, they dont imply they are uniform.

Hot and cold is a spectrum, does that imply that something is just as likely to be as hot as the sun as it is to be room temperature? Obviously not, saying something is a spectrum makes no assumptions about the distribution.

@realcaseyrollins

@wiggles

Yes much like hot and cold define two categories at either extremes of a spectrum and warm exists inbetwee... male and female is no different in that regard, they represent the two extremes of the spectrum and intersex is the space inbetween on that spectrum.

Sadly the specific cutoff points arent clearly defined so it isnt always obvious where male ends and intersex begins for example.

@realcaseyrollins

@wiggles

> it’s not a continuous spectrum, it’s a steep bimodal distribution

You just contradicted yourself there, a bimodal distribution is by definition continuous, you literally just agreed with what I said.

It sounds like your confusing the term "continuous" with "uniform"... it is a continuous spectrum/distribution, it is not a uniform one (as you say it is bimodal)

@realcaseyrollins

@realcaseyrollins

Its really not that difficult.. they have qualities of both sex.. sex is not a simple "male" or "female".. its a bunch of traits that are considered one or the other and a person has some combination of those traits to varying degrees.

@wiggles

@wishgranter14

I never argued one way or the other what the "purpose" of sex is, please try to keep up. I have argued how one determines the sex of an individual and what that means, I never disagreed or otherwise address "purpose" in that.

@wowaname @meowski @ArdanianRight @SwampWitchHerbalist @a7

@wiggles

It already is heritable, or at least some form of intersex. We only covered the fact that being intersex often coincides with lower fertility, which is true, but its heritable despite this.. or at least in some cases.

@realcaseyrollins

@wiggles

Oh sure, I never claimed they were a novel sex at any point... I claimed that sex is not a discrete characteristic where a person is male or female, it is a continuous spectrum where a person can be some perportion of male or female depending on how they develop, which a majority of people favoring one end of the spectrum.

@realcaseyrollins

@wishgranter14

Yes exactly that is why it was absurd... you really are struggling to keep up, but bless you your trying.

Also notice the fact that you ignored my primary example which is a woman who was born infertile, the woman who went through menopause was the secondary example.

@wowaname @meowski @ArdanianRight @SwampWitchHerbalist @a7

@wiggles

> the sex of an organism refers to its reproductive capacity,

Not really, its part of it, but not the whole of the definition.

If you have a woman who is born infertile but otherwise has every indication of being a woman, would you declare she has no sex because we only define sex through reproductive capacity? Of course not, because we dont, sex is defined in a much more nuanced way than just your ability to have kids.

@realcaseyrollins

@meowski

Thank you, I'll update it.

@SwampWitchHerbalist @a7

@wiggles

Well few things..

1) you are correct that the examples I gave were not necceseraly fertile or healthy conditions. However there are plenty of intersex individuals who are perfectly healthy, so thats not really much of a point overall.

2) yes intersex people do tend to be infertile (though not all are)..

However, how does either of those 2 points prove that sex is any less of a spectrum? Sounds like what your saying is that people at either extreme of the spectrum tend to be physically more healthy, which is fine, but doesnt negate the fact that its a spectrum.

@realcaseyrollins

@wishgranter14

Wow your a little slow on the uptake. The point was made to mock the absurdity of the claim I was responding to. The whole point was to show how absurd it is and it is presumed a reader wouldnt be so dense as to think I was making the point in earnest (though I seem to have underestimated you)...

Literally the whole point of the statement was to show how absurd it is.

@wowaname @meowski @ArdanianRight @SwampWitchHerbalist @a7

@wishgranter14

Exactly my point, it is absurd... your catching on!

@wowaname @meowski @ArdanianRight @SwampWitchHerbalist @a7

@ArdanianRight

Sure, no one is claiming there is. A persons sex, however, is not defined or limited by their reproductive role (as is obvious by the fact that a reproductive woman is still considered a woman).

@wowaname @meowski @SwampWitchHerbalist @a7

@meowski

Yes, you have

@SwampWitchHerbalist @a7

@ArdanianRight

So a woman born infertile or post menopause is not a woman, she has no sex since she can no longer reproduce?

Think what you want but thats just absurd.

@wowaname @meowski @SwampWitchHerbalist @a7