🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@billiam

So you think we should let people almost die because then they will stay home?

@kino

@Telvannichad

That same page reiterates what I said, that the majority of the replication crisis has been observed in psychology. Has a whole section devoted to it..

@kino

@icedquinn

Medicine cant and wont predict the future. The fact that they change what they say as they learn more is a good thing. We are dealing with a new virus that didnt exist prior to just 2 years ago. Its understandable out understanding of it and how to fight it needs to be an evolving process, I cant fault them for that. But it also means it is ok to doubt some of the assumptions.

@kino

@Telvannichad

The replication crisis is **mostly** limited to psychology. It can be seen on a much smaller scale in other discipline but not nearly as prolific. Still its important to make sure if you sell something as fact that it has been replicated across many studies.

@kino

@kino

Trope is just an oft repeated idea.. it isnt meant as a negative term.

I dont like the WHO's political handling of this shit.. yea i dont like they reworded the website. But the fact of the matter is natural immunity doesnt usually cause herd immunity. It can usually be a factor, but not hte mechanism for herd immunity. My issue is the who eliminated the details rather than explaining that.

@Telvannichad

@icedquinn

Yes that is the problem. The only way to avoid that is to get everyone vaccinated very quickly to get ahead of the varients, and thus reduce the need for boosters. Which resistance to vaccinating it may not be doable though.

@kino

@Dice

Depends. Not washing your hands and the like, sure, yes.

@kino

@Telvannichad

Yes I know the old WHo screenshot trope.

@kino

@Dice

Thats unlikely to be why. Eating rotted food and other things that might invoke your immune system wont carry over to viruses.

The horrid conditions at the time and its effect on the immune system is why you dont have autoimmune diseases, but wont effect your response to a virus all that much.

@kino

@kino No it never meant that, though natural infection can contribute to herd immunity in some special cases, generally it is not a major driving factor.

A simple counter example is smallpox. It was around for thousands of years and natural immunity never got us even close to herd immunity. Then vaccines came around and we eliminated it.

General natural immunity wont get you herd immunity for many reasons and the reasons can differ from disease to disease, but a disease will usually evolve in a way that its natural cycle will make sure herd immunity cant occur (or else it never would have evolved int he first place).

The reason herd immunity cant occur naturally with covid, for example, is because your immune response is perportional to the severity of the infection and can fade with time. So natural infections usually wont protect you unless its so severe as to wind you in the hospital, in which case it likely will. So most people wont have enough of a immune response to create a herd immunity naturally.

@Dice

Yea the original is still circulating.

@kino

@kino Not necessarily. That depends. The vaccine treadmill only occurs when you cant read herd immunity quickly enough. Variants arise most strongly when you have high vaccination rates that are short of herd immunity enough that R0 is still high.

So anti-vaxxers not playing along, if they are a significant portion of the population (and they are) will absolutely create that treadmill. We can only see success if people get on board, and they arent/wont.

@kino Who said anything about ignoring delta varient... vaccination of a crowd protects everyone even if it only protects partially, its still protection, full stop.

That said it is true it isnt as effective agaisnt variants as we hoped, we didnt have these variants when the vaccine was created. As a result we will have to create vaccines for the variants. But if antivaxers arent playing along then we cant expect that to work either.

As for your analogy, its more like saying "Someone got a virus once even though they were using a virus scanner, therefore no one should use virus scanners"

@kino Looking at just Delta varient is what we would call cherry picking the data. Putting aside if the viral load is the same on delta itself, which is debatable, the fact remains that on the original virus there is no debate that it significantly lowers viral load and therefore having the crowd vaccinated does, in fact, provide greater protection.

@kino Vaccines increase protection, but they dont make you immune. Others who arent vaccinated have significantly high viral loads and thus are more capable of spreading the disease. So by others not being vaccinated it increases the risk of everyone, including those vaccinated.

@kino I am neither anti-vaxer nor pro-vaxer when it comes to covid. Being new technology I feel its reasonable for people to be cautious, but at the same time there are no significant risks that have popped up.

That said I think the general issue with it is quite clear. If you are the only one vaccinated out of a crowd you are safer than if you werent vaccinated at all, but you are at higher risk than if the entire crowd is vaccinated. So the issue in their minds, and a valid one, is that your choice is increasing their risk.

@icedquinn Only cause thats where they prefer to be :)