🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@abhijith

Fair concerns... as a democratic entity the best way to ensure that doesnt happen is to encourage good-actors to join, especially early on. If good actors boycott it you could very well get a beast

That said because the bylaws have a 2/3rd vote to change them as long as we can get good bylaws as a starting point, with good actors, it should be hard to change for the worse, I hope.

@doot

@probgoblin

> Close. The argument was that the cultural animosity from the practice of slavery was both justified and insurmountable. Which is the 18th century version of your allowed statement that black people commit more murders because they are discriminated against (which, is incredibly dehumanizing even if we don't look at the historical versions of that argument).

I said nothing of the sort.

I **never** said they commit more murders. I said they are discriminated against and arrested unfairly... this suggests they did **not** commit the mureders but were only arrested on it due to discrimination.

If you think pointing out that cops arrest blacks without cause and accuse tthem of murders dispreportionatly is wrong to point out, then I dont want to be right.

> Between this and your assertions that the LGBTQ is somehow destroying their own communities and credibility by not being tolerant enough, I'm tapping out. Nothing productive will come from further discussion between us.

You really went in looking for a fight arent you. What I said is that Nazis are manipulating the LGBTQ to force them into responding in a way that hurts their own community.. a bit of a difference there dont you think?

@doot

@probgoblin

Wait what.. jefferson used the argument that blacks are arrested unfairly due to racism as an argument to perpetuate slavery, and thus we shouldnt point out the fact that blacks are arrested dispreportionately due to racism?

huh....

@doot

@probgoblin

Saying blacks are unfairly targeted and arrested is an argument for an ethnostate? How so?

@doot

@doot Agreed!

@wtwagg

Ditto

@doot @probgoblin

@doot @jaz

The new wording for the code of ethics as suggested is up.

See it in the bylaws: https://ufoi.gitlab.io/constitution/united_federation_of_instances_bylaws.pdf

In the proposal:
https://ufoi.gitlab.io/constitution/united_federation_of_instances_proposal.pdf

and on the website:
https://ufoi.org/docs/code-of-ethics/

This suggestion comes from jaz.

@doot

Perhaps, I do respect and appreciate any choice someone makes for themselves to be protected.

All I know is when allys are constantly being treated like nazis it cuases a lot of credibility to be lost. It may not be fair, but the point is it hurts the community and just serves to create animosity and hate for a community that doesnt deserve it...

Plus I dont think it creates the protection you seek... If a nazi is out to attack you they know full well what the dog whistles are and just wont use it. So its not an effective tactic IMO, but again its up to you to decide what works for you, not up to me.

@probgoblin

@probgoblin

Sure ill answer... it depends on what was said and the great context.

Here is something that wouldnt be acceptably:

> Thirteen percent of the population is responsible for over half of all murders. Threfore black people are criminals by nature

Here is something that would be acceptable:

> Thirteen percent of the population is responsible for over half of all murders. Which suggests they are discriminated against and arrested dispreportionately.

The first one is against our rules since blacks are a protected group and would fall under "nefarious"... the second is ok because you are trying to address an injustice against such a group.

@doot

@doot

But they arent keeping themselves safe.. they are putting themselves in danger by attacking 95% of people who use it who arent nazis, people who are likely allies or potential allies and at best protecting themselves from a few nazis, maybe.

There is more harm done to our community than good.

What people dont realize is this is exactly the game the Nazis are playing.. a small group of nazis intentionally pick phrases or gestures that are extremely common because they WANT to pit LGBTQA against eachother and destroy communities, thats why they pick common every day phrases to do it... the issue is the LBTQA is being manipulated and ultimately destroying their own community and ostrizising allies and looking like the bad guy exactly like the Nazis want.... .so I dont think its a good choice.

Dont get me wrong I understand its out of safety, and I sympathize and understand it... but its extremely self-damaging.

@probgoblin

@doot

Ok ill add the new wording.

@jaz

@probgoblin

Oh yes it is done all the time, and I think it is monumentally destructive to the intended cause and to society.

I have a deaf friend, they use the OK symbol quite often, its a crucial part of their language. They were in a photo once making the signed and dogpiled for being a nazi, it was disgusting... one of the worst things to develop in recent society is people looking for "dogwhistles" and accusing good people using common phrases of being nazis or alt-right just because a small portion of society uses those phrases...

Just because we do it all the time doesnt mean it is justified.

@doot