🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@sanae

No doubt there is unfairness in hiring, but women are paid less in unions too, so those issues are less about unions.

@futurebird @mike805

@theogrin the difference is that a board can just fire a ceo, they have limitations i when and how, ceos have a level of autonomy. Just as a board has a certain level of autonomy against thrbinvestors that ellect them.

@jens

Trust me when i say no one wants to pay my sort of fees, so usually by the tine im hired or gurus in general (as they call us in tech) its a last minute desperate attempt when they have no other choice. If we wetent a neccesity we wouldnt exist.

And your right we do tend to be horrible for team dynamics, we have an ego and we are quite demanding and usually demand of people things thry dont want to do or object to... but in the end we save thr company and fix the roadblocks no one could. We woukd t keep getting hired if we didnt.

@futurebird @mike805

@theogrin the difference is that there are protections in what an investor or a board can dictate, they are very limited... investors can not directly tell a board how to vote. Likewise a board can not tell a ceo how to operate the company with regard to day to day business. Thry are limited to only being allowed to decide on certain types of things, like allocating shares and other things.

A union however has a lot more power, for example calling strikes.

@jens

Ive saved far too many companies from failure and seen the neccesity of, well me, too many times to buy the fact thst im a myth, lol

@futurebird @mike805

@jens

Nothing can be further from the truth... without those exceptional people you ru into bugs and problems that are simply u solvable by anyone in the team. Ove seen it countless times.. hell i am that person, i get hired on teams thst have not had a top expert for their lifetime and so riddled with issues the code barely runs. Then after a few months of working there the products can finally be usable again and im paid accordingly.

I came in as a tech expert at my current company. Great group of folks but they were small and lacked a "guru".. spent 3 years trying to build a product but coukd t crack it. They needed to design a device able to detect covid off of the chamicals in someonea breath... after 3 years they were in the mid 70% on accuracy and just coukdnt break the 80% mark thry needed to crack in all thst time.. i came in, toom me a week to figure out why and 3 months to throw away all theirncode and start over. When i was done we had 91%.

Now dont get me wrong we needed the whole team, and now that i run the company i push for them all getting raises and treated fairly.. but with out a top paid expert like me the company woukd have never stoof a chance.

@futurebird @mike805

@theogrin unions have tons of benefits, as i said i stro gly support the existance of unions... im just against scenarios where people are forced into one specific union rather than having the right to choose how and if to unionize.

@AmpBenzScientist hahaha classic

@futurebird

Thats true as well. Though there are tools that tell you what a normal wage is for a specific job and skill level. So everyone involved knows when someone is low balled even without open wages.

I myself beleive that s good employee is worth paying a fair wage because thats how you get good loyal work out of ghem.

@mike805

@futurebird

Well its sorta doubke ended.. with an ope wage system everyone is driven closer to the mean, so the poor negotiators bring everyone elses wage down too.

Ideally people would learn to be better negotiators, perhaps teach and train it in school, but ideals arent reality either.

@mike805

@theogrin yea well sadly in most things in life the people who dont have morals the shackle them down will likely have the most to gain... less rules to slow ya down.

@futurebird

Yea if your not a strong negotiator you will likely get pretty badly taken advantage of. No doubt youd have a huge advantage with open salaries, but on the flipside disadvantage to the strong negotiators or those with exceptional skills well above the mean.

@mike805

@Homebrewandhacking

Lol what a moron.. cant even have an adult conversation without announci g to everyone your blocking people for dari g to have an opinion that isnt a kirror image of your own... luckily everyone else in this conversation is mature and can have a productive discussion.

@futurebird @mike805

@futurebird

People are paid by their skill not the amou t of work they do, but that aside i cant speak to your situatio or skills. I also dont know how hard you negotiated for your pay. Perhaps you just werent a touvh negotiator and you got low balled.

My first job at 15 as a programmer paid me 100k, ive never been paid less than that a day in my life. But companies tried and i always negotiated a good pay in the end if i demanded what i was worth, i also always made sure to interview at 30 places at a time so i coukd have tons of competing offers.

@mike805

@theogrin

There is no shortage of investors who cause harm... if we narrow the criteria down then surely there are tons of bad apples. I just felt its important to note there are a great many investors out there who care about all the stakeholders and are doing their best to do whats right for everyone.

@futurebird

Depends on the industry... for tech ive seen no secret wages completely destroy a company. You loose all the people who are your top players and left with a very mediocre and under performing group... i tech you always need those few people who are miles ahead of the crowd (and paid for it) fixing the problems no one else can while everyone else does the bulk of tbe busy work... this dynamic isnt as critical in many other i dustries so you can get by with open wages without it being a company killer

@mike805

@theogrin

I suspect your thinking more about the old-money type investors or even just boomer investors in general. They tend to be old fashioned and stuck in their ways which is more the issue than anything else. Many of the younger investors, really almost anyone under 50, is going to have much more modern kind of thinking in my expierence.

@mike805 @futurebird

@AmpBenzScientist im sure its a good hardy meal, and to be frank i can enjoy most cusines... but i notice the list of ingredients is suprisingly lacking when it comes to spices ;)

@futurebird

Thats probably more due to the circles you keep than an honest sampling of the public... there are tons of industries not known for having unions and that is directly due to the tendency for members of that community specifically not wanting them.

@mike805

@theogrin

I think its hard to classify all of us investors into one bucket. There are of course many who focus on short term gains, and for many investors thst may cost them their support in the long run. But i think youll find investors and the rich are so monolithic and do t fit the stereo type of the oil tycoon archtype as much as youd imagine

@mike805 @futurebird