🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@JonKramer

Hahah sounds good. Thanks for the good convo!

@HeavenlyPossum @trinsec

@HeavenlyPossum

https://qoto.org/@freemo/110849729765937024

I have already addressed this several times.

@JonKramer @trinsec

@HeavenlyPossum

I am going to politely disengage at this point. I have had to repeat myself far too many times and its a good indiciation that a conversation doesnt have much left in it.

That said, thank you for the polite discourse, I enjoyed it.

@trinsec @JonKramer

@georgetakei This is true... then again neither have Biden or the DNC sadly.

@HeavenlyPossum

Again no they arent. When you form a firm you are significantly restricted in your ability to "collude".. so much so you are isolated from the internal workings of your own company.

@trinsec @JonKramer

@HeavenlyPossum

Sort of.. you pay a penalty to "combine" your capital... youve created a cooperation, so now your double taxed. You also are restricted in your pervasiveness. As described earlier if the corperation has control over a whole niche it will be found illegal and broken up. Also as an individual you dont currently have to compete with companies, you can work with them, as a company you must compete. So i can be on the registry of multiple staffing firms as an individual... as a company im limited and must actually compete with other staffing firms.

So yea you are allowed to combine resources if your willing to take the penalties that come with it.

@trinsec @JonKramer

@HeavenlyPossum @JonKramer @trinsec

Much like if two people worked for the same staffing firm and set prices, it would be fine.

@HeavenlyPossum @JonKramer @trinsec

I would call that price-fixing and it is highly illegal.

@JonKramer

No not always... other companies are unionized too, working for yourself wont help as they wont hire consultants and contractors either outside of the union... When unions are pervasive you dont have those options (much like when companies start to collude to price fix)

@HeavenlyPossum @trinsec

@JonKramer

Quite the opposite, unions make markets less free... Thankfully in most cases they may remain free-enough depending on how pervasive it is.

Take Netherlands as an example (where unions are required and everyone is in one)... There when I was around 20 I would make 1/3 what I make in the USA. Now that I am 40 I make about 1/10th my salary there thatI would in the USA.

@HeavenlyPossum @trinsec

@HeavenlyPossum

I am not claiming that exclusive contracts arent bad... they are... they just arent the only issue nor the issue on the table.

@JonKramer @trinsec

@HeavenlyPossum

No, you keep trying to sell this idea (and its nonsense) that working together is the same as price fixing.. it isnt. The owners dont control the prices within the company they own, its nonsense. Yes they are collaborating, no they arent price fixing.

@JonKramer @trinsec

@JonKramer

Because you might really like the company, you want the particular position because of your potential for your career, or perhaps because you just cant find any other jobs because they are all union jobs in your area.

@HeavenlyPossum @trinsec

@JonKramer

Actually there are plenty of states where unions can force employees to join. Ultimately they forced a company into such an agreement which the company is now not able to get out of and is legally obligated to only hire union workers. In some states this is legal, others it is illegal. It is called "right to work" laws.

@HeavenlyPossum @trinsec

@JonKramer

The fallacy you just demonstrated is:

cum hoc ergo propter hoc

@HeavenlyPossum @trinsec

@JonKramer

Correct, and unions usually stubb out competition... In fact in quite a few states you are legally **required** to join a union and in some countries too. In that sense they are 100% effective in eliminating competition as they legally managed to do so.

Even when you arent legally obligated to join the union as a worker have you ever tried getting a job at a unionized workplace without being in the union, even if you are willing to work for half the rate? Chances are you wont even get an interview and if you did all your coworkers would be actively sabotaging you.

@HeavenlyPossum @trinsec

@JonKramer

It has nothing to do with morality, it has to do with a healthy, functioning economy where everyone benefits.. price fixing destroys economies.

@HeavenlyPossum @trinsec

@HeavenlyPossum

Again, cooperation of any kind isnt the issue. Companies and people can cooperate all they want.. What they cant do is price-fix.

Labour can sell their services through staffing firms, and they even set their prices as a group when they do. This is fine because it doesnt target the entierty of a niche (all employees of a single company, or of a particular class of workers, or even of a geographic region). Much as company owners have some ability to collaborate and work together so long as they dont price fix (cooperate with other companies to fix the price within a certain niche such as a geographic location).

@trinsec

@JonKramer

Even just two companies of one person each would be in violation of the law if they colluded to price fix together. We have seen examples of this where single-owner businesses on a signle block (in this case on a campus) colluded to price fixed and were found to be acting illegally.

@HeavenlyPossum @trinsec

@HeavenlyPossum

And you are missing the point.. The legal structure is such that their collusion is severely limited by ensuring they dont have the information about the internal workings of the company to collude in any way that would result in price fixing.

People are allowed to work together, companies and employees... what they can do is collude to carry out price-fixing, and owners are prevented from doing just that.

@trinsec