🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@admitsWrongIfProven

The irony of you two getting along despite having more similar views than either of you probably have with me is... well.. odd.

@TruthSandwich

@lxo

The interpritations you offered is not a "perfectly reasonable way"... they are technically factually true, but still very unreasonable to compare where we are now with the start of the epidemic (which had a single starting case).

> your response made it clear you've done no such search

How ya figure, during my discussion I provided actual figures for various points of time and various locations... this shows quite the opposite that I did in fact did a search and made sure to speak from fact.

> you jumped at one interpretation you disagreed with, and responded in a way, if I weren't familiar with your earlier stances, would have suggested that you were the one minimizing the harm brought about by covid-19.

That is true, I mocked the original posted and responded sarcastically. I can indeed see how someone might miss that sarcasm and think I was being literal.

However, once that confusion was apparent I explicitly stated I was being sarcastic... at which point they no longer had any excuse to lean on a mistake in communication, because it was cleared up. Yet they continued to act the way they did.

So while this may excuse the initial response, it does not excuse the fact that, once corrected, they continued to respond the way they did.

> and that appears to be the way the interlocutor read it

Sure but when explicitly told they read it wrong and this was explained this excuse evaporates, and their behavior continued.

> and it went down the hill from there.

As one would except when the other party made an assumption about my stance and then ignored me when I clarified their mistake... you can blame them for the initial misunderstanding but not the continued behavior once thsi was clarified.

> thus my diagnosis of violent agreement, and that you're both talking past each other.

Im not sure its violent agreement, we have the same intent perhaps (we see covid as real and serious)... but that is not the same on agreeing that what he said wasnt massively harmful to the community. Intent only gets you so far. Suggesting we are in the same state now, by any objective metric, as we were before the vaccine is either highly misleading, and harmful, or blatantly wrong, and therefore just as harmful.

@gfarrell

I agree with the intent here, in the message.. but the argument this makes seems to be opposite of the intent,

Seems to be saying the only way there isnt a contradiction is if a 12 year old is both mature enough to give birth and check out a book... or if she isnt mature enough to give birth and therefore not mature enough to check out a book.

This suggests (incorrectly) that we either need to legalize abortion and ban books, or illegalize abortion and not ban books....

@randahl I dont have much hope he will be arrested for this.. but I would be quite pleased if he was :)

but only because I have no sympathy for him, not because I see anything inherently illegal for stating someone committed treason, and that treason carries the death penalty.

@admitsWrongIfProven

The person accused of toxicity and driving people to the other side is the person i quote tooted in the OP.

@TruthSandwich

@admitsWrongIfProven

I assume you are asking the Sandwich?

@TruthSandwich

@TruthSandwich

Whether I agree or disagree, lets again take this as truth for the sake of argument.

This still proves my point, that by being toxic and attacking people who are on your side you will ultimately drive them to the other side and turn their otherwise unexpressed bigotry into far more expressed and harmful bigotry.

No matter how you slice it the sort of toxic behavior I called out serves to add support to the other side and take away your own supporters... At best you may drive them to a middle to a third party (which in your headis almost as bad)

@admitsWrongIfProven

@admitsWrongIfProven

to be fair he never specifically said iether of us were bigots.. he did say that if someone switches from DNC to GOP in general they are just a bigot and not caused by any attacks fromt he DNC.

Since I am NOT a supporter of the GOP his remarks did not apply to me.

@TruthSandwich

@TruthSandwich

Alright, thats fair, and ill accept them as axioms for the purpose of this discussion.

But im not sure it answers the question I just asked either.

@admitsWrongIfProven

@ioletsgo Gay people, totally sounds fictional... I mean unless they are an alient species with a single gender, that sounds realistic, but not actual humans!

@lxo Oh your talking about the total number of people in the world infected... In that case the number at the begining of the pandemic was 1... so at that point its just nonsensical a statement to make at all. So still not really a honest statement to make in any useful way.

That said the issue here is not if you can somehow twist what he said into something that can be technically true or not... its the fact that it is a harmful statment, misleading at best, flat out wrong at worst. And instead of making any attempt to actually discuss it they went straight to personal attacks...

It is their behavior and response to the criticism, very valud criticism, without any care for the facts, that leads me to have issue with this. Someone simply being mistaken or presenting misleading information unintentionally in and of itself isnt the issue.

@e3aefda887252a72cee3578d33b2dcd90e9fe53b8bed6347ef5e26f74211adbb

Just checked... on 15m we got abotu s2.5 noise (thats no preamp or attenuator on). Meanwhile on 40 meters with no attenuation or pre-amp on im seeing s4 noise.

this is no filters or anything. I am in the middle of the city with an antenna on my roof... so noise isnt that surprising.

Made my first contact on my new antenna... 15m band, 1400 miles (PA to Texas).

Cant wait until this evening to see how well it does on 80 meter!

#Ham #HamRadio #AmateurRadio #Radio #RF #ee

@TruthSandwich

So if it isnt contant than we are back where we started.. a low-level of bigotry can evolve into a high-level of bigotry, and ultimately cause people to switch which side of the fence they are on, due to their expiernces and how they respond to them.

@admitsWrongIfProven

@lxo

The rates were even higher on day one since no immunity had formed in anyone yet... so even then they would be factually wrong.

@lxo

I'd be happy to hear if the other party had some facts to back up their claims of course or if they meant something obscure...

but infections per day is what i was talking about with th enumbers I stated, though my statements would also be true if we talk about "total number of people infected at any one moment" and even infections per exposure... none of these even approach pre-mandate levels.

I am a COVID research scientist and am intimately familiar with the numbers around COVID and there is **nothing** about the current numbers to suggests they are at or near pre-mandate levels... not infection rate, nor infection count, nor any other metric... As a scientist I am happy to hear someone is making a fact based argument, but there is no indication of that being the case here.

Worse yet when called out for being wrong I saw no effort on their part to either correct themselves or clarify.

@TruthSandwich

Sure, but I didnt ask about anything before nixon.. im asking about now, and people who, at this moment, happen to be changing parties, which you claim is a demonstration of a bigot yet also claim bigotry would have to be a constant.

@admitsWrongIfProven

@TruthSandwich

Ok but the more important question. So all these racist or sexist bigots that were part of the DNC who then at some point move to the GOP... What caused them to pick the DNC over the GOP to begin with and more importantly what would cause them to switch teams? I mean they were always biggoted, but according to you choose the less bigoted side and then switch to the more bigoted side... but you claim bigotry itself is a constant, so they didnt do it because they became more bigoted.... so why switch?

@admitsWrongIfProven