🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@admitsWrongIfProven

> Really? Is this a defense mechanism or are you alledging that male presentation in past posts might have been a lie?

I have never once publicly talked about my genitals, I dont plan to start. Thats like asking someone who looks like a woman in a womans bathroom if she is a "Real woman" aka, what genitals she has. Its not appropriate to do so I do not appreciate when people assume ones outward appearance must match ones genitals, its counter productive to society.

@admitsWrongIfProven

> The murderer comparison does not fit. Victim would be the person that has the consequences.

Great, then that would be the fetus, and when someone is unable to express their will to live we assume they have one.

The risk to the murderer is not nonexistant.. they risk emotional damage fromt heir acts, harm from the victim fighting back, etc. So both have consequences. The reason we facor the victim isnt because they are the only one with consequences, it is because the murderer put them in the situation against their will, much like a moth puts their unborn child int hat situation against the childs will.

@trinsec Life viability doesnt seem relevant here for me.. two reasons 1) the mother by not getting an abortion in the first 10 weeks (remember pregnancy tests are free so no excuse in this scenario) they are choosing to make a life dependeant on them for 9 months. That choice makes them responsible to see it through in my eyes since you put the child in that risk to begin with.

@dashrandom So what exactly is that "social contract"... Do I have to sign the contract or is it automatic? Which contracts am I automatically enrolled in and what qualifies them as such?

@admitsWrongIfProven

> Well, good thought in general, but i'd disagree on the timeframe.

Most people do so thats understandable. Obviously I disagree.

> You see, you messed up one thing: you're a man, and this is a decision that the woman in question needs to make.

Dont assume what genitals I have.

More important it very much has effected me. I like all humans have been fetuses and at the mercy of the law regarding abortion. Therefore since everyone has been ont he receiving end we all have a right to say.

Thats a bit like saying "you cant judge what laws we should have for murder, your not a murderer so it wont effect you!"... No but i am a potential murder victim....

> Not loosing my shit, but omniously whispering "seeeeexismmmm" ;-)

Lawl

@admitsWrongIfProven

?Yea when i talk of it being respectful I am emplying your using language to try to show that respect ins ome way.

@manlycoffee

@TammyGentzel

Again, since the person has the right to still have an abortion it isnt a measure of who is more valuable. It is a measure that both have value (without measruing who has more) and ensuring both have their value honored by looking after the bodily autonomy of each of them.

I picked a scenario where both can survive, have their will respected, and the woman still has the right to not follow through with an unwanted pregnancy...

I am far more concerned that you are trying to find the value of two humans so you can determine which has the right to murder the other. I prefer a stance where no murder occurs and both have value.

@Clementulus

So if I happened to find murder more beautiful, would that be ok too.. beauty, being subjective, is it a useful motive?

@mc just you, i have no trouble uploading... it may also be the file your trying?

@kj6dbe

> By “loose[sic] their shit” I take you mean “disagree with me”. Not too surprising, for a Mad Libs style position such as yours.

Nope I meant exactly what I said. Not surprising your struggling to understand what was said when your starting with an insult in your very first sentence I guess.

> What are the chances that you will be in the position of having to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term?

Are you seriously asking a perfect stranger what genitals they have? Disgusting, and none of your business

> If zero, what gives you the moral authority to impose limits on others, that would not affect yourself?

Even if it were 0 uit has effected me greatly. I was once a fetus and thus once at the whim of abortion laws. As someone (like everyone) who was once at risk of being effected by these laws I, and everyone, has a right to an opinion.

Woot. I half finished my fully from scratch aplit key keyboard wth oled... literally half finished so far :)

#DIY #DIYKeyboard #Keyboard #Keyboards

@trinsec That seems like a horrible cut off... killing a baby who would survive given time simply because it cant survive at this moment.. that seems like a horrible measure designed more to justify the murder than to actually look after the self determination and bodily autonomy of the baby

@trinsec its all we have. consciousness and other higher forms of thought are unknown to us and purely speculative. All we know is prior to 10 weeks there is no brain so no moral issue.. .after 10 weeks there is and the morality is no longer clear.. how underdeveloped does a brain have to be before murder becomes ok? Id rather stick with the science and go with the one line we can objectively measure without moral ambiguity

@trinsec 10 weeks is when neurons form and fire.

@ech Why do you take long lists of things that collectively prove a point, single out a single thing and think that if that one thing in the list is an exception it invalidates the whole list?

No, memories is one of many things I listed that having any combination of those has value, having absolutely none of those (or even a brain) does not... I do think you are trying to argue in good faith, but sometimes it doesnt feel like it.

@ech

Right, not having a brain at all, and being able to grow one, is vastly different than having a brain, personality, memories, expiernces, and it is temporarily turned off.. not remotely comparable.. one exists and is in a domant state, one doesnt exist at all but may be able to be grown.

@jbschirtzinger

@ech

The reason its not useful is that their brain may only be temporarily not functioning. It both stands a chance of recovering, and retaining previous expiernce.. A person without a brain is never waking up in their current state, and if they manage to grow a brain only once the brain is grown can it have any sort of thought or sensse of self or anything that makes a person a person in any meaningful sense (even if its a glimmer of it)

@jbschirtzinger

@ech

I listed three properties, not sure why your focusing on that one (other than its the easier one to attack).. .the point is, if youa rent capable of thought, awareness, suffering, emotions, if you dont have a brain your safe to kill... If you do there is some point its not ok and that point is unknown and cant be easier defined.

So the approach is simple, pick a timeline that garuntees everyone gets a fair shake

@realcaseyrollins

@ech

Which is the point. My core argument is not dependent on defining the moment consciousness exists. It is only dependent on defining when consciousness absolutely doesnt exist (on the obvious fact that when you dont have a brain yet you cant be conscious). The idea being you cant have any of those properties prior to you developing neurons, ergo abortion prior to 10 weeks is garunteed to be morally safe regardless of the ambiguity as to when any of those properties kick in.

@realcaseyrollins