🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@HeavenlyPossum

> You would need a citation to demonstrate that the Chilean public has a substantively different lifestyle from the American public that could causally generate such a lower life expectancy in the US, rather than just making it up.

Again no.. The burden of proof is on the author to ensure they have accounted for these possible confounding variables, pointing out they did not account for them does not mean I have to prove they would change the results, only showing that the original chart is bad-science and doesnt do any sense of normalization for confounding (a requirement to pass peer-review in data science).

> Assuming something as self-evidently true without evidence isn’t how science is done, buddy.

No it isnt, but it also isnt a claim to science. It is showing that something which is self-evident wasnt accounted for by the person doing science, they not only assumed it wasnt true by not normalizing for it, it shows they didnt account for things which are highly reasonable to speculate could be an factor.

You are right, making those assumptions isnt science, which is exactly why the chart is bad science, it makes an assumption on that, and the onus is on the author not me.

> I didn’t ask you about the chart, I asked you to defend your own claim, which you evidently can’t or won’t do, because the neoliberal explanation just *fees* right to you.

And I answered you, my claim is not meant to say "this is true" it is meant to show a reasonable explanation for the data that was not accounted for and thus showing bad science. My claim being true or not is not what makes it bad science, the fact my claim wasnt accounted for does.

While yes, my explanation does seem to be a reasonable intepritation of the data ive seen throughout my life it is not an assertion of scientific fact, it is an assertion as to why this chart is not scientific fact, and int hat regard it is accurate.

the fact that your sitting here arguing with a published professional research scientist about what is good science and not and you are defneding obvbious bad science tooth and nail says a lot about who is making assumptions here.

@GossiTheDog @juergen_hubert @malwaretech

@HeavenlyPossum

> Citation?

You need a citation to tell you that Chile is a different culture than the USA? What?

> It’s fun to make things up.

I mean some things seem obvious to me. So are you arguing I'm wrong and Chile people have lifestyles that are as healthy as people in the USA? I mean I think thats obvious but atleast this seems like a reasonable thing to want to object to. I would have no problem exploring the data here.

> You made a positive claim about the likely cause of the chart’s results that you have only asserted, not demonstrated. The onus would seem to be on you to prove your claim.

Doesnt work that way buddy. When a chart explicitly abandons known best practices, and therefore would fail a peer-review, it is not on the peer reviewers to prove why a possible/likely scenario is true or not. The fact that a reasonable scenario is not normalized is itself a failure of the original assertation. It is the job of a person posting data to show they reasonably accounted for counter-explanations. It is not on me to prove something they didnt account for is true or not.

To put it another way, this is bad science even if after normalization they are still proven to be right. Bad science is bad science regardless of if it happens to be correct or not in the end.

@GossiTheDog @malwaretech @juergen_hubert

@niclas Not sure if this was a joke. But to be clear im not looking for something that will analyze my food for me. Just a way to log my food, these tools use databases to find out the micronutrient content.

@illandan Thats not what we are talking about. We are talking about fear, not "real dangder"... separate things. Putting people in real mortal danger is typically illegal (depending on the circumstances).

@HeavenlyPossum

> If that were true, you’d expect to see the rest of the OECD countries spending closer to US levels and getting even higher life expectancy gains than they already have, unless you assume they’ve maxed out what money can buy.

Not sure why OECD would be particularly specied here, they all have wildly different cultures and lifestyles. There is nothing about OECD that would suggest they have similar lifestyle characteristics as the USA. So any expectation that they would be similar seems like an absurd comparison. Chile for example doesnt have the unhealthy lifestyle of Americans.

So no this would be a very unreasonable expectation.

> You haven’t done anything but assume there are lifestyle differences between the US and the rest of the OECD that causally produce lower life expectancy.

Thats how science works, the burden of proof is not on me, its on the author of the chart. Posting bad science that fails to prove X does not put the buden on me to prove "not X", all I have to do is show why it was bad science (lack of normalization), the onus is on the author .

> Earlier, you told me you hadn’t made any assumptions, but you’re assuming both different lifestyles and a causal relationship that you haven’t demonstrated either.

No the other way around, the data is **assuming** the scenario I described is not possible by the act of not doing the correct analysis and normalizing for it. The onus is again ont he author to prove their assumptions, not on me to disprove their non-fact based assumptions (non-normalized data).

> This chart is also what we’d expect to see if the US healthcare industry existed to extract revenue from Americans rather than to provide health outcomes.

MAYBE, since it was done using bad-science we cant know that.. nor until they normalize properly and do good science.

@malwaretech @GossiTheDog @juergen_hubert

@ambihelical No, your freewill allows you to walk away from things that give you fear, not to control another person so they dont put you in fear.

@illandan I think its fair to say that my freedom ends where yours begins... which is to say you have bodily autonomy to walk away when your in fear. :)

@HeavenlyPossum

For reasons I explained. People will generally pay anything to live a little longer. Combine that with the fact that when you have an unhealthy lifestyle money might buy you a bit of time, but its diminishing returns and all the money in the world wont buy the sort of full life a healthy lifestyle will.

So with the diminishing returns on spending on health combined with the unhealthy lifestyle this is exactly the way I'd expect a chart to display when it is done using bad scientific practices like not normalizing the data for lifestyle and cultural choices.

@GossiTheDog @juergen_hubert @malwaretech

Somehow it seems fitting that white positivist starts at Lowe's paint section....

Anyone have any suggestions to alternatives to cronometer pro for tracking micronutrients in food? The more complicated or advanced the features the better... integration with garmin a plus.

#Diet #Health #Food

@juergen_hubert

Who said anything about noteworthy. Its simply likely the reason the chart looks the way it looks.

@GossiTheDog @malwaretech

@ambihelical its a natural right, and it should be.

Now chasing you to inflict fear on you would be harassment. But that has more to do with being unwanted and chased than the fear. At least as far as I'm concerned.

@realcaseyrollins

I wouldnt know, when i see inthe header a glaring error that is central to the whole article and the central example I dont tend to read the rest of the article.

Why would I treat an article as an authoritative source when its lead-in header isnt even correct about the fundamentals?

@GossiTheDog @malwaretech

@gpowerf yea... well . I mean at this point anythign that kills 2 hours is a win, lol.

Thing is the previews made me think it would be snow as a child leading up to the hunger games... when i realize the whole thing takes place 10 years after the first hunger games I was pretty disapointed.

"My freedom doesnt end where your fear begins. Freedom is scary, deal with it." -- John H. Bryan

@realcaseyrollins

The law that made hydrogenation illegal was passed a long time ago, but had time for manufacturers to switch. So it wasnt in full force till september 2018.. but for 6 years now the USA has had no hydrogenated products of any kind.

Dont beleive random websites on the internet, it will make a liar out of you every time :)

@GossiTheDog @malwaretech

@realcaseyrollins

I can already spot this article is incorrect in the first picture. It claims american fries use hydrogenated oil. But All hydrogenated products have been illegal in the USA for some time now.

@GossiTheDog @malwaretech

@realcaseyrollins
Yea strong disagree there... some random preservative that is considered safe int he USA isnt going to make people fat or die early, if there was something like they are likely to make it illegal. I mean hell even triglycerides arent legal here.

@GossiTheDog @malwaretech

So I watched the new hunger games. I was expecting it to be about the start of the war and establishment of the hunger games... i t wasnt.

I found it to be a complete flop.

Yup, its what happens when people finally start meeting non-americans after a life of thinking USA is the only country.