🎓 Dr. Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@social.cleverlibre.org

@mcnado

> is it? Here’s the study (linked below). It’s a meta-analysis from earlier in the pandemic, which looked at studies that included hospitalized and ambulatory patients.

Yes that is what the study is on. In other words.

> The study concludes jn multiple places that 80% of people with COVID will experience one or more long-term symptoms.

No that is NOT what the study concluded. The Study concluded that Of people who have severe COVID, to the point of hospitalization, those people have an 80% chance of showing long term symptoms.

What it is NOT saying is that 80% of people who get COVID will have long term symptoms. These are two entierly different assertions.

You are trying to generealize a statement specifically made about hospitalized patients to apply to everyone who has ever had the disease. That is disinformation or negligence, im not sure which. You should have been taught better in school than to make that leap.

> Do I think that’s representative? No. Is it what the study says, yes.

Then you are wrong and it is negligence, that is very much **not** what the study says.

@Raccoon

@Raccoon

Also the 80% figure was a straight up misrepresentation of the studies... in the source he linked literally NO studies stated an 80% figure for incidence of long covid as a result of COVID. The 80% figure was talking about something else and he totally misrepresented it.

@mcnado

@Raccoon

Agreed, and no i didnt miss it, that is kinda part of my point. i am arguing there is nothing remotely approaching consensus or high quality studies on this topic as of yet. As you point out it isnt even well defined in a useful way. So any assertion about long covid being real or its prevelance is negligent. The only honest answer any doctor or scientist can give right now is "we just dont know"

@mcnado

@mcnado

And that is a lie... This is **NOT** the high end estimate.. There is **no** study that estimates 80% of people with COVID will have longCOVID symptoms, not one. You read the study you quoted wrong, or you intentionally misrepresented it. I dont know which.

The 80% number cited int eh study you linked was not the upper estimate from studies and the fact you have asserted it as such now twice is very concerning to say the least.

@mcnado

Why would someone who is 1) a COVID Researcher 2) a published COVID Scientist 3) An inventor of the fastest way int he world to detect COVID 4) someone who explicitly stated covid is serious.... why would someone fitting that description give yout he impression that I think COVID isnt serious.

I will be clear and state again. COVID is a serious disease.

YEs I do agree that post-covid symptoms are a legitimate concern. But there is no solid consensus on how common it is, in fact the complete lack of consensus, combined with lack of being even able to do a double-blind controlled study, and with the very high fear factor, we have absolutely no idea how common it is. So any assertion of any number, even 10% is highly irresponsible IMO. We cant even be certain long-covid exists yet, let alone how common it is. There needs to be a lot more research before any doctor should be asserting numbers around how common long covid is. The only thing we should be saying is "there isnt scientific consensus yet and it remains an area of concern"

@AmpBenzScientist Depends what algo you want to use and what key size... any v5 is your best bet though.

@KimPerales deporting people who came here illegally is the norm in virtually every country. Even the EU deports illegal immigrants more aggressively than the USA.

@mcnado That said I do think you are unintentionally sharing disinformation, which is why I am engaging you to encourage you to be a bit more conscious of it.

@mcnado

I just double checked your study... its worse than I thought, you are even misrepresenting the study in what your saying here now.

You are citing upwards of an 80% figure, that is NOT what the study says. It says that in patients who were hospitalized with covid (so people who had extremely unusually bad casis) have upwards of the 80% figure. That is NOT saying 80% of all people with covid.

So turns out this was a much worse and damning misrepresentation on your part than I first thought. Given your credentials I'd go so far as to say its a lie and deceptive the way you stated it based onn the very source you used.

@Hyolobrika

Yea thats trivial:

gpg --output doc.sig --sign doc.txt

@skyblond

@PattyHanson

ok

@mcnado

@mcnado

Thats not how science is done. The existence of low-confidence studies that produce outliers is not the same as saying a literature review has consensus within that range.

No reasonable person would look at the literature on this and assert that ANY of the numbers have enough confidence to start telling the general public figures. The only responsible response is "We dont know what the figures are but the highest confidence studies are in the 15% and less range, and almost all studies show very little consensus"

@mcnado

We wear full PPE, the patients are in a hospital setting.

I suspect I didnt catch it from working with patients at all, I suspect everyone gets it this often. The only difference is because I get a PCR test multiple times a week that i actually find out every time i get it which as i said is almost always asymptomatic. When i test positive it gets sent over to a lab for verification.

I am not required to PCR test that often, I just do it as part of the test process when i use the equipment each day.

@PattyHanson

@PattyHanson

I would recommend against using personal anecdotes to get a sense of the commonality in the general population. But it can give us a bit of a sense of the overhyping I suppose. I myself, as a COVID research scientist I work with patients often. As such I get it often. I have had it a total of 7 PCR confirmed times so far. Of those times only 1 of them did I even get symptoms where I would have known I had the disease at all. I have no post-covid symptoms.

Part of the problem is that the data is very skewed and hard to reconcile. The people who actually wind up in studies tend to be a very very small portion of the people who actually get COVID, in fact most people who get COVID will never even know they had it.

@mcnado

@mcnado

Sorry but thats just not true. I will try to find it for you but the last attempt i saw at finding a mean for the prevalence among existing studies produced a value from 11% to 16%. Couple that with the fact, again we cant remove the placebo effect from the reality the actual numbers are almost certainly skewd quite a bit below this.

@mcnado

Sorry my tone may be a bit on the harsher side than you deserve. But you get my point.

@skyblond I usually recommend you keep the original key and encrypt it and secure it away. At the very least you shouldnt be using your master key anyway and should use subkeys.