FreeSchool: Learn Respect Love @freeschool@social.cleverlibre.org

Internet without BigTech?

If you imagine the internet without Google & BigTech then you can be more realistic* and complain less.

* = get less bad stuff AND ASK FOR IT much less.

If you know the inherent model is bad then don't use it do much... and this will really test if you want the bad candy of not in your reply!

You have to say no to the whole thing sometimes, that's the design. If you act as if they don't exist in your world until we starve them out / just not add to their fire.

Farmers of Forty Centuries - Organic Farming in China, Korea, and Japan, pg 295 (1911)
CHAPTER - Rice Culture in the Orient

#Squash / #Pumpkin
- Heirloom #Vegetable #Gardening, #PDF pg 280

PDF = Farmers of Forty Centuries - Organic Farming in China, Korea, and Japan, pg 195
Chapter = Night Soil

(Don't ask me why I collect this shit, I just feel one day we'll realise again the brown gold we used and can still use for growing things)

@yogthos
"When you learn to do nothing, then you will find the real purpose of life."
- last part of video

Bad Stealing = Running up debts in the people's name to profit other companies / extract money

vs.

Expropriation = Taking a property out of an owner's hands (especially by public authority)

The last sentiment is to take back what is stealing from people, by force... otherwise they will steal and claim we can't
- share the fruits of labour
- pay people equally
- do things without big debts.

Real Life conversation and situation recently... (needs revision but anyway for basic elements here including 1 paragraph summary below)

TL;DR Summary = money first then community (well maybe community you will see later after paying).
Probably a bit like buying something you can't test or is just a re-wrap of what isn't that expensive if already setup.
Although I could join the forum and post for free - really I was looking to get stuck in with more audible contact (not just forum posts and do more the 2-way people-growing thing, interactions, practice).

Anonymised somewhat.

This shows the paradox of building on an unethical model (banking, extortionate rent, unsatisfied money/debt etc) which we kind-of accept in the now but in the end know it consumes ALL your work and even your children.
Very rarely can you buy freedom.
Don't want to overdramatise but this is just way it it.
Paying is A LOT far faster than anything free BUT anyway if you try for free AND paid maybe it will work (truth is both measurably do not work because money rules BUT a mixture of paid / unpaid can work OVER TIME to wear down problem (i.e less paying the inflated prices and rent that just wastes people energy completely and isn't even keeping them much alive always busy exhausted tired abusing themselves without sleep etc, not able to contribute to half of life)

So without hating this is what I think we need to bypass to allow people to actually contribute ***waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before money***, As we are also actively seeing money against everything else IT IS POLITICAL even if you don't want it to be. And not paying is also political.

Ok not a rant but in short if you don't see that money is being blown way out of proportion and out the window (as fast as the win blows) and if you think you can maintain silly speeds and catchup or keep get continued donations to survive SORRY but just try paying less rent somehow... and then you can get free work / server space from existing people living lavishly!

Basically hard to say "don't use money" I know so minimise... and don't sell out free software as much as possible (even when you're life was already sold out perhaps). Do a kind of Richard Stallman to build a Free Operating System from people who have jobs and do it in their spare time <---- I could be wrong about this please check.
At least sharing somehow... and somehow money but they have check-mate what can you do?

So if you're really serious about Freedom or FOSS I suggest the Richard Stallman / RMS type way to build the Free XYZ in spare time as Freedom doesn't pay accordingly as a job (unless you wrap Free Software or nest it in some other way and provide a cheap service) and even then I believe it doesn't pay the rent or sysetm shafting us in every which way. Don't try satisfy that.
The system is way to far gone and same as hanging yourself.
Everything is too expensive and anyway people politically don't donate also though because their heart knows that matrix is bad and accordingly want to do things without or let those that have lots of money and profit pay!)

So that's a paradox I can't blame this person or myself but money is basically stronger and more aggressive . To do things in spare time wins it and yeah maybe someone with a server already but not re-inventing an already cheap wheel and even stopping people coming in unpaid.

False hopes of trying to get money is coming to reality (pays 1000s EURO for rent is too much to even want to pay that)... especially from others equally poor or stubborn.

In this case: Asking people to subscribe or becoming a member without actually participating first / knowing what they get - was not what I was looking for.

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Basic format of conversation.
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(me) "Hi I want to give time to community or anyone with similar feelings and intentions... the people thing is very important"

"Great let me tell you more about what we do...
- We are Free Software advocates,
- We like the idea of A, B, ,C, ,D principles etc
- We are very similar to what you also said

(basically a lot of what I like and agree with in a diagram they showed during their screen share presentation 1 to 1)

We provide software and servers which then you can communicate with others...

(me) That's good but there's also Jitsi Meet...

Jitsi doesn't have these features

(me) yes it does now, not all but more than half you mention and is catching up

Well you want it to be private and fast.... etc

(me) You can install it yourself and it is fast

I guess you're right, Jitsi actually needs less resources and is less complicated... but these features are really needed for community

(me) They are good but still the people interaction is the main thing (audio/video) and Jitsi is catching up with BigBlueButton... so while I think it's good you could do it with existing stuff and this I guess is hard to hear

We want to get movement together and get them interacting etc

(me) fair enough. Do you do you own drive to social change or conversations other than hosting the free software?

Well we like to bring people together and that is mostly what we do

(me) So can I participate or contribute without becoming a member and pay for account?

We want to pay our people fairly and well we have to pay our rent

(me) Indeed which is only increasing and feeding those fat cats but I get what you mean and respect that... just paying is FAR faster than anything else it's quite crazy to pay so much each of us.
And we will still go broke all quicker than we can get members paying for people's sky-rocket rent.

We want to make an ethical movement (some repetition)

(me) Don't want to sound like I'm anti at all but you know banks are the unethical base to everything so I appreciate there isn't one solution but hard to beat that unethical stuff using the same kind of money underneath
I think it's better to do it more free first and then those that can pay...

We want to build an ethical social thing (repetition)

(me) yeah ok so let's agree it's difficult to build ethical on top of really bad stuff... but isn't there some other way to have people contribute without being payers?
Basically someone like me who is all-in-freedom to just start to get to work and use the software without the password that you need to get in or account that can be created almost for free anyway? Isn't it a bit of a pay gate that some could be allowed without paying?

(he repeats a bit) We want to pay our staff fair ethical wages and...

(me) Yes I see the paying is important for you first and to build up... but I'm not sure where it's going --- so how about this in theory - and not against your current model but once you're comfortable, say for example now or if not in the future, you let some people have some accounts free and let people give you communication / feedback / their time freely WHILE you have some others that want to pay,... as personally like you said this is about ethical things and some people really find the mechanism and force of money unethical to the point of not wanting to use it

Well in order to build this community we need to thrive and build up...

(me) ok... just it sound like I get the message and direction so as I see it now, although running a BigBlueButton server takes a bit of work, once it's set up then this could allow people in since account and usage is perhaps well free or minimal and

(We are both trying to be polite about money or paying people ethically and me mentioning the rat race to pay only increases in rent astronomically and that whole game is far more consuming money than any community can raise or wants to spend on.... so doing it free at least will get some work done AT THE SAME TIME as you existing model).

To be continued....

Building solutions for problems that don’t exist today.... Or not needed to be complicated.
All for tomorrows financial benefit.
A sort of backwards design.

If you read this in reverse it reads:

- A sort of backwards design.
- All for tomorrows financial benefit.
- Building solutions for problems that don’t exist today.... Or not needed to be complicated.

How to stop / reduce that order?
Hmm..

' Engagement ' is needed asap- perhaps not the fake financially measured kind of engagement for social media BUT taking EXACTLY those type of things Capitalism supplies a core for and feeds from (system see you are replying back to users and gives you higher % score) and just do it ourself perhaps with a bit of Mastodon statistics (I wrote more about more-harmless stats before).
Feels like I could orchestra engagement even just on my own (there only a few a people actually active here) but really the many to many ants approach is what's going to do it.

(notice I say ants, not sheep)

If you want help making this idea then let me know - my server seems less fertile in this and I'll be happy to help you steal it and get domination in the people sense (of dominating themselves).

Not engaging each other is definitely not the way. I think engagement can be comments but really is much more than that...

One day everyone has to take their own advice.

Saying something to someone else can merely be to practise and help oneself prepare for their own outcome even though it's genuine advice for others.
That is also the way of self-education.