Luis M. Rocha @lmrocha@social.cleverlibre.org

@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @freemo @pj that is not the point I made. I was pointing to the capriciousness that gun profiteering apologists use when interpretating the 2A. All concepts that it trades in have changed dramatically, but the apologists treat the inconvenient bits as, well 'it's not like that now”, and the bits they care about as immutable, reified text that only other amendments can adapt.

As I said, all this is legal interpretation that depends only on a few lackeys the profiteering oligarchy pays up to sit on the supreme court---in another profound constitutional blunder. It is very hard to fight oligarchy, but the youth whose lives it values less than profit may yet have the power to change things.

@freemo @mike805 yes, but those are not the ones used in school shootings and which the majority of the population wants to regulate. It's they killing machines.

Also, no one, except killing machine profiteering apologists, cares about the distinction between automatic or semi-automatic. The available high capacity, semi-automatic models are automatic enough in their killing design and need to be regulated.

@freemo @mike805 you can repeat your beliefs all you want. That does not demonstrate anything. Send me your peer-reviewed analysis and I'll check it out.

@freemo @icedquinn @mike805 I did not see your great detail explanation. Randomized control trials, and their pseudo variants, are hard for network causality, but excellent for the number of variables in these studies. Without them there were be no pharmaceutical approvals. The A/B testing on which tech and consumer services depend, similarity. Granger causality is a very nice measure, but it is still a correlational predictive measure that does not do well beyond pairwise interactions, etc. But if you have a peer-reviewed paper with granger causality analysis of the gun/mortality/violence situation, by all means send it.

@freemo @thatguyoverthere @mike805 no it's not. Comparison is essential for making laws and argue about them.

@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @freemo so why do you need driver's licenses and insurance to operate a vehicle?

@freemo @icedquinn @mike805 what experts? I sent papers with randomized control trials, what is better than that?

@freemo @mike805 so, are you saying that the US has lower rape rates than other similar countries?

@freemo @mike805 what guns are engineered to do is not a matter of opinion.

@icedquinn @mike805 @freemo all part of the same death cult and profiteering racket. FYI, I quit working for the DOE after the illegal Bush/Cheney Iraq war. I have no hesitation calling them war criminals. Putative DOD crimes do not in the least validate letting our children be killed at the altar of a profiteering death cult based on archaic constitutional interpretations.

@icedquinn @mike805 @freemo gun owners who defend availability of high capacity automatic weapons without regulation can believe whatever they want. But we should stop being polite and call their death cult for what it is: a profiteering racket that values dollars and selfish toys over the lives of children.

@icedquinn @mike805 @freemo no, homicide as well. Read the papers.

@icedquinn @mike805 @freemo
Arthur L. Kellermann et al., “Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home,” New England Journal of Medicine 329, no. 15 (1993): 1084-1091.

[Wiebe, Douglas J., “Homicide and suicide risks associated with firearms in the home: a national case-control study,” Annals of Emergency Medicine 41, no. 6 (2003): 771-782.

Dahlberg, Linda L., Robin M. Ikeda, and Marcie-jo Kresnow, “Guns in the home and risk of a violent death in the home: findings from a national study,” American Journal of Epidemiology 160, no. 10 (2004): 929-936.

Miller, Matthew, Deborah Azrael, and Catherine Barber, “Suicide mortality in the United States: the importance of attending to method in understanding population-level disparities in the burden of suicide,” Annual Review of Public Health 33 (2012): 393-408.

@icedquinn @mike805 @freemo https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

@freemo @mike805 your parallel with vaccines is silly. Vaccines are not engineered to kill like all guns are. Vaccines may very, very rarely and accidentally kill. So the argument for gun control is nothing like the antivax argument.

@freemo @mike805 the dishonest argument is positing that guns prevent deaths at any reasonable rate, when you have no data whatsoever to show that is remotely true. Most gun deaths occur with guns from your own household. When was the last time you had to defend an attack with guns?

At the end of the day, what are you guys so afraid of that you need guns? The zombies?

@mike805 @freemo have you looked at the gun sale numbers since the 40s? The profiteers created a great market based on fear and the fiction of the second amendment. They have flooded society with guns at levels never seen before. More guns, more shootings; it is simple statistics.

There is also the element of race here we have not addressed. Reagan and so-called libertarians supported gun control when the fear was the Black Panthers. To this day, freedom of carry is in practice a white privilege. Try carrying a gun while black. It doesn't even have to be a real gun, just the imagination of one.

@mike805 @freemo why no rage shootings elsewhere but there USA? Actually, they exist, but when they happen elsewhere laws change and high capacity shootings disappear. It's only the USA where profiteers have been able to engineer a profitable death cult around the second amendment.

@freemo @mike805 exactly. You want your toys, who cares if children get murdered. The kids fighting in Tennessee understand you.