PJ @pj@social.cleverlibre.org

@boris_steipe

I glanced over the sources you listed but won't pretend I understand everything that's in there 😉
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, for example, a bird and an airplane both show the emergent property of *flying* while being two totally different "machines".
I believe where we differ in our views is that for you their flying is identical, or the flying of the airplane might be even superior to that of the bird, while for me they are quite different processes that cannot be compared so easily.
Also, #evolution and #learning are two completely different processes. Evolution depends on large pools of (imperfect) #copies of the same "thing", while learning is more like the #growth of a single individual having the ability to "learn" (modify their internal #state).

@boris_steipe
Reading this from *The Bitter Lesson* by *Rich Sutton*:

> researchers seek to leverage their human knowledge of the domain, but the only thing that matters in the long run is the leveraging of computation. These two need not run counter to each other, but in practice they tend to. ***Time spent on one is time not spent on the other***.

http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html

For me, the last sentence means that the ***real value*** of #tools like #AI for humans is that they can free us from tedious, repetitive, unimaginative work such as #computation in favor of more elaborate creative thinking.

People have always used previously developed more primitive tools to develop better ones. This was true for all tools and machines we invented so far, and is also true for #AI's ability of "upgrading itself".

@boris_steipe

I don't know. #Language is a fairly new "improvement" in biological evolution, and I'm not sure you can reverse engineer (artificial) #intelligence from it.
You could argue that intelligence evolved ***before*** language. After all, you have quite a few intelligent animals with no language or with a very simple vocabulary.

@boris_steipe

I'm not sure if you can have a #state #phase #transition with just #computation. You can definitely "scale up" some existing capability by ading more computational power, but can you get (evolve to) something radically new?

@unklar
But seriously. It is a proven fact that just enough #constraint is better for #creativity:
>Recent surveys show that managers tend to consider compliance restrictions and a lack of resources as the main obstacles to innovation. This common wisdom suggests eradicating all constraints: by getting rid of rules and boundaries, creativity, and innovative thinking will thrive. Our research, however, challenges this wisdom and suggests that managers can innovate better by embracing constraints.

https://hbr.org/2019/11/why-constraints-are-good-for-innovation

@unklar
😃
https://despair.com/collections/demotivators/products/potential

This was already tried numerous times throughout history. It is beyond me why would someone think ***civilization states*** may work in this day and age. "*Civilised*" or not, a state is as good or bad as the relationships it maintains with its own people and its neighbors.

>#Culture is what every tribe and community developed to affirm its sense of #identity. Some cultures established #states with clear #borders that further nurtured their cultures (and) were led by **“men of prowess”**: chiefs or priests, princes or kings, even emperors.
#Civilization began with the idea that the “*civilized*” had to confront the “*barbaric*.” **Men of vision** set out to *find meaning in life beyond their own borders*. They ranged from prophets and teachers who inspired those with wealth and power to spread their message to everyone.

https://www.noemamag.com/modernizing-ancient-civilizations-for-todays-planetary-challenges

@omartwotone

OK. A couple of remarks (from the bottom up):

1️⃣There are only two domains: the #physical (external) #data domain, which also contains the "virtual" electronic representation, and the (internal) #cognitive domain of interaction between #information and #knowledge.

2️⃣There are no external "sources" of information, knowledge, or understanding. These are all #produced within the "cognitive domain" of the individual learning system (or organization) from external data.

3️⃣Situational awareness, intelligence, insight, foresight, and understanding are all different terms describing a current knowledge #state of the dynamical (learning) system.

The bottom line is that you can only use your existing knowledge to extract information from external data. You afterward combine this new information with your existing knowledge (learn) which may change your internal knowledge state and understanding of the state of affairs in the physical domain.

Simple😀

@omartwotone

Nice. Thanks. A military doctrine document? No wonder it is so convoluted😀.
I'll let you know what I think is wrong with it after I give a closer look. Thanks again.

@omartwotone

Found where? Seems like it was taken from a book or a paper.

I find it pretty confusing just by itself. Three *information domains*, *external information* providing *intelligence sources* while having nothing to do with *internal knowledge* which is listed under *other sources*?

I wonder if Figure 2.1. may provide some better understanding?

@omartwotone

Is there some explanatory text going with this picture?

Why would you want to "*toughen up*" a highly sensitive [precise instrument?

>1️⃣ #HSPs are naturally more empathic and caring to the needs of other people
>2️⃣ HSPs are trusted by their peers because of their honesty and conscientiousness
>3️⃣ HSPs notice little details that others might miss
>4️⃣ HSPs are very creative and can appreciate things at a deeper level
>5️⃣ HSPs have more insight into their mental and emotional processes
>6️⃣ HSPs feel more connected to the world around them
>7️⃣ HSPs feel positive emotions more deeply

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/highly-sensitive-person-7-reasons-why-being-an-hsp-is-a-strength-according-to-a-neuropsychologist

>#Fundamentalism attempts to give to non-scientific ways of #knowing the status that is given to #science, but it omits the #openness of science to new #evidence that is essential to that status.

M.C. Bateson - in *Legacy for Living Systems*, pg 22

https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-4020-6706-8

>For millions of viewers, “it’s just a Pavlovian response to put on Fox News at eight o’clock,” Lawrence said. “Tucker needs the eight-o’clock hour on Fox News way more than Fox News needs Tucker.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-communications/watching-tucker-carlson-for-work

The scale of importance runs probably in this order:

1️⃣ #Health
2️⃣ #Education
3️⃣ #Defense

A healthy and educated population is better equipped for defending a society that assures those basic needs are satisfied.

As long as there is no room for economic #exploitation or political #manipulation in such a society.

Finally, someone who recognizes #Education of the general population is as (if not more) important as #Defense.

https://www.the74million.org/article/a-darpa-for-k-12-omnibus-bill-includes-substantial-new-funds-for-education-rd/

@slider7420

Nothing compares with the reality of this scene from #GalaxyQuest 😃

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hthl28SEGfk

I was wondering where #NoemaMag and Maçães got the idea about the "decline of Western liberalism":

https://www.ft.com/video/a49cfa25-610e-438c-b11d-5dac19619e08

>***The illiberal promise*** is that once we’ve dispensed with liberalism’s inconvenience, uncertainty, and constant rumbles of public dispute, you will end up empowered. Your morals will be enshrined in law. Your culture will be propagated by the government. Your friends will be rewarded and your enemies punished.
>But a litany of wars, inquisitions, and purges show that for almost everyone, this promise is a lie. Without liberalism, you probably won’t end up empowered. You’ll end up bearably oppressed, if you’re lucky, or persecuted or dead if you’re not.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-liberalism-in-us-will-only-lead-to-violence

I would not dismiss ***Western #Liberalism*** so fast as Bruno Maçães, Portugal’s former secretary of state for European affairs does in this propaganda article from #NoemaMag.

Western Liberalism was on its "deathbed" many times but somehow always managed to defeat any #Civilization #State lined up as its replacement, with either nationalist (#Fascist) or inter-nationalist (#Comunist) roots.

https://www.noemamag.com/the-return-of-civilizations/