PJ @pj@social.cleverlibre.org

@freemo

No worries. The "shut up" part was a figure of speech😀. Many tried, unsuccessfully.

"legal requirement" vs. "strong suggestion"? I can work with that as long as it minimizes the chances of "bad guys" legally getting their hands on guns (e.g. more than a dozen AR-15s)

Specifically:

1) Not if being part of a club, who is a member of the NRA means you are ***more*** protected than as an isolated individual.

2) If you need to arm the victim to protect themselves from being raped by someone they have a restraining order on, that order and the agency that issued it is worth as much as the paper the order is written on.

3) See 1)
@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

@freemo @thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

One more thought about the analogy between ISPs and gun clubs with regard to privacy, and then I'll shut up.

Long ago, I received a letter from my ISP that they got a request from an entertainment company to get my ID because they want to sue me for downloading one of their pirated series from somewhere (which I did). They were just informing me of that fact and that they won't comply with the request if I stopped.

Well, I'm not downloading anymore (streaming is better) and even if I moved a couple of times, I'm still with the same ISP.

So being a member of a good club (who knows who you are) sometimes also means you can protect your #privacy better.

@freemo

Yes. That would be a good start. My suggestion was though to try seeing things from a larger perspective.

I believe that one of the problems is that too many individuals are #alienated from their immediate local (physical) #community while fulfilling their "communal needs" primarily with strangers over the Internet except for #Work and maybe #Church, which is obviously not enough, and sometimes even adds to further alienation.

I think people should be free (or even encouraged) to form their own local societies with real people they get to know because of things they feel strongly about, and guns seemed like one such catalyst to increase the number of "good guys" and minimize the harm done by "bad guys" with guns.

@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

@freemo
Yes, I've said it is not the same. @thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

@freemo

Buy how, in cash?
@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

@freemo
The problem is that you don't need a gun shop to buy a gun or the shop doesn't care who they sell their guns to.

This is the same as if you could access the internet from your computer without an ISP. Imagine what a shitshow the Internet would be then compared to what it is already is now.

If you could only buy a gun from a gun shop, I believe more than half of all the problems we have now with gun violence would go away.

@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

@thatguyoverthere

No, but your ISP always knows who you are.

@mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

@freemo Same answer as to @thatguyoverthere

@mike805 @lmrocha

@thatguyoverthere

Attacking a person is in this analogy akin to physically harming a child as opposed to "just" downloading child porn.

Ideally, you would want to prevent evil or sick people to harm anyone.

@mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

@thatguyoverthere

Yes. you can do it all by yourself, but you need an ISP to access the Net, don't you?

@mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

@thatguyoverthere

No *you* don't have to interact with the NRA, your club will be doing it for you.
You are welcome to start your own club, get an IP address, and start shooting.
Yes, the NRA has nothing to do with your natural right to self-defense. So what is it for then?

@mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

@freemo

Oh, it can.
Try downloading child porn or other shit and look how fast it will be denied.

@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

@freemo

I'm talking about airplane *engineering* safety which I happen to know a little about.

Airplanes, are statistically speaking, the safest mode of transportation. More people die in bus and car accidents than in airplanes and that is not by chance. It is because we've put some effort into making them safer.

According to you we should have gotten our priorities straight and fixed the buses first.

@freemo

How don't you see it is the same situation?

I can get access to the Internet from a library or walk onto a shooting range and shoot a few rounds under supervision, but if I want to buy a gun and take it home where there is a risk of harming other people, I have to get an IP subscription and join some of the social platforms where I can "shoot" nonsense like this.😀
@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @lmrocha

@thatguyoverthere @mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

If it helps, think of it as a ***"gun owners' fediverse"*** where each club is an "instance" and the NRA, instead of an association of individuals, is a federation of all the gun clubs of America.
Then, instead of taking care primarily of just the needs of their wealthy donors (gun manufacturers), they may start also thinking about the needs of all of their other members and their local societies.

@freemo

Yeah. Sure. If we had this kind of equitable approach to aviation safety, we would probably have more airplanes falling from the skies but at least our bus rides would be as safe as airplanes.

Sometimes with people, it is not all about statistics.

@thatguyoverthere

Why is it more terrifying than being all by yourself? Just make sure your club is not hostile to the government.😀

If the government thinks you, or any bunch you are currently associated with, are hostile, you will be stripped of your rights anyway, club or not club. At least in a club that was previously sanctioned by that same government, you have some kind of protection.

@mike805 @freemo @lmrocha

@freemo @lmrocha @mike805

Maybe it is not ***the*** problem but it surely is ***a*** problem. We can argue about priorities, but I believe a well-regulated ecosystem of gun clubs with proper shooting ranges, competitions, and other social events may go a long way in easing the violence, especially among younger people.

@freemo

Do you consider the 60 people gunned down in Las Vegas in 2017 more of a "medium" or a "larger" game?

Also, how could this happen:

> His arsenal of weapons, associated equipment, and ammunition included ***fourteen AR-15 rifles*** (some of which were equipped with bump stocks and twelve of which had 100-round magazines), eight AR-10-type rifles, a bolt-action rifle, and a revolver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

I might have a suggestion that could satisfy most of the people here:

**Problem:** The perpetrators in mass shootings are mainly "loners" with some unresolved issues.

**Solution:** To be able to legally buy a gun you need to be a member in good standing and have a permit from a "well-regulated militia" (a.k.a. a gun club or society).

So the responsibility for the security of a society is neither on the individual nor on the government, but on the society itself.

What do you think? Is everybody happy? You have your guns (as many as you wish) and the rest of us are a little bit less concerned we'll get shot at our place of work, learning, or praying.

@lmrocha @mike805 @freemo