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@HarryChenPhD @elia @freemo

As I said in another post the president of the Italian professional order of biologists claims that the Italian virus is different from the Chinese one and it originated from Italian zootechnical industry (animal farming).

So the discussion is still open.

@freemo

Again with this thing about majority...

The monetary system is not something that should be studied by economists like biology doesn't study how microscope works, physics does so.

Yes economist can't understand the monetary system because it's an information technology.

Oh and tell me, are those the same economists that make possible a world were ~50 people own half of the financial wealth and 7 bilions of people the other half?

@HarryChenPhD @elia @freemo

I didn't say so. But Italy and in future USA are risking a total collapse and we don't even have monetary sovereignty to save people.

This is not China's fault, our system was extremely fragile because of the same neoliberist ideology that is making exploitaion of workers in China a reality.

@HarryChenPhD @freemo @elia

Maybe I can't understand Chinese culture but I know where neoliberist ideology originated from (spoiler: UK & USA).

@freemo

It wasn't my intention to impose Tarro's opinion as truth! Mine was just an attempt to prove in fact that we can't have the final word on the subject ;)

@freemo

So why is MMT wrong?

P.S. don't be fooled by the term "theory". It's not an hypotesis, the term theory was used by its inventors in the accademic sense of "set of knowledge about a subject", like Probability Theory in Math.

MMT is not even about economics, it's a description of a technology, the monetary system.

In my opinion everything else in the economics is pseudoscience. Math models in economics are garbage. Even the 2018 Nobel Prize winner Paul Romer said something like this. He even introduced the term "mathiness".

@freemo

Fallacious argument on many levels... one is that you are assuming that the vast majority of virologists disagree with him. This is a very strong affirmation you should prove before... on the other hand the opinion of the majority is not the truth, that is not an argument but a rhetorical trick. Instead the discussion should happen on the matter... I don't pretend to claim Tarro is right. He could be wrong, but I provided a fact: a major expert with a name and a surname has a certain opinion and arguments to support it.

@freemo

Are you sure you know Modern Monetary Theory?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory

If it's wrong, where? If it's right: what's the missing step between it and "enemployment and neoliberist policies are criminal"?

Even Warren Mosler, the father of MMT, said: "unemployment is a crime against humanity".

@freemo

Giulio Tarro, pupil of Sabin, recently awarded in the USA as the best virologist in the world, disagree with you (sorry it's in Italian): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-KeNKjQ9k

@freemo

OK so do you agree austerity, unemploument, poverty and so on are just criminal policies justified by a fallacious assumption on how the monetary system works?

@freemo

Sorry, you are right, I should do assumptions...

So do you know Modern Monetary Theory?

@freemo

The problem is not the virus per se, it's just a cold. Otherwise there would have been no problem: the seriously ill with other pathologies would have been hospitalized. There would have been no need for any restrictive measures and panic would not have been triggered.

The problem is that our health system suffered from neoliberist policies and is about to collapse for a simple cold.

This is the reality, when you know certain things this is just the simple rational conclusion.

@freemo

No, they are way better than Western countries when it comes to these crisis.

I don't like the Chinese being so militarized and that they don't care of liberal democracy and other rights but when these crisis happen they show the advantage of their social organization. China will certainly recover from this crisis. It is the western world with its neoliberist ideology and its stupid budgetary constraints that is likely to collapse.

@freemo

You think so just because you have no idea of what US did and what it is doing.

Months ago we had a governament crisis in Italy and we changed it without elections. There are different reasons but a big one is still US: they had to stop the agreement on 5G by the previous governament and Huawei.

And do you know US has 70+ atomic bombs in Italy?

I live in a very small town with less then 5000 people but here we have a US military base and we, Italians, don't know what they do there. Neither do our military forces.

These days as I mentioned 30 000 soldiers arrived in Europe from US.

And this is nothing. In the future the world will discover Modern Monetary Theory and will realize that all the sufferings from neoliberist policies like austerity were totally useless, that the public debt was a lie. They will discover the biggest genocide of the history that is involving people from all around the world, all the people affected by these criminal economic policies. The world will discover poverty and unemployment are just a criminal policies and easily avoidable. People will realize all their sufferings and deaths of their beloved were caused by an ideology that made thousands and thousands more victims than any communist regime.

@freemo

Oh please mate, how can you be so naive... the US one is an empire, the Empire. They control Europe, South America, Africa and Middle East on different degrees... the only countries that are more free are presented by Western media like the worse dictatorships: Russia, China, North Korea, Venezuela and so on...

If you listen only to the mainstream media you will have a distorted view of reality. The bad guys are USA, no doubt on this. No stupid excuses. You have an Internet connection to do your research, no? Just do it, hear what others have to say.

And what about Assange? Do you know what he revealed on the Iraq War and how US are punishing him and killing journalism?

China violanting human rights... oh Jesus. Oh Jesus you know nothing

@freemo

The president of the Italian professional order of biologists claims that the Italian virus is different from the Chinese one and it originated from Italian zootechnical industry (animal farming).

It's too early for conclusions like yours...

@freemo

We, Italy, are actually a colony of the US Empire.

Wars by USA after WWII:

1950–1953 Korean War
1960–1975 Vietnam War
1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion (Cuba)
1983 Grenada
1989 US Invasion of Panama
1990–1991 Persian Gulf War
1995–1996 Intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina
2001–present Invasion of Afghanistan
2003–2011 Invasion of Iraq
2004–present War in Northwest Pakistan
2007–present Somalia and Northeastern Kenya
2009–2016 Operation Ocean Shield (Indian Ocean)
2011 Intervention in Libya
2011–2017 Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda
2014–2017 US-led Intervention in Iraq
2014–present US-led intervention in Syria
2015–present Yemeni Civil War
2015–present US intervention in Libya

Not to mention what USA did to Italy between in the '70 and '80, the creation of European Union that is actually a genocide of European people, Greek ones in particular, the International Monetary Funds that is doing the same in Africa... I can continue but tell me if this is all new to you.

With respect, comparing China to US is ridiculous, it's like comparing Napoleon to Hitler.

@freemo

(hey it's great here there isn't a character limit! Many thanks!!)

First of all I don't feel this division between my people and chinese people, we are all humans and this could had happened to every country in the world. My criticism is always towards governaments and not people. Nobody in China deserved this, no matter how bad their governament is.

Also I think yours are too early assumptions: a few years ago a virus research center was opened in Wuhan. As the Western world felt that China was appropriating scientific research conducted in there, an agreement was made to share more research in this area and this agreement included the construction of this laboratory in Wuhan. China would have shared its resources with the Western countries but the latter, through the World Health Organization, would have had some control over this laboratory.

A few months ago there was a news about a coronavirus transfered from USA to this laboratory without informing the China, who expressed disappointment and we didn't get any further news on this.

Later right in Wuhan appears the famous Covid-19.

Also in 2017 the World Bank in collaboration with the already mentioned WHO issued the so called Pandemic Bonds, that were basically a bet there would had been a coronavirus epidemic, probably from China, for at least 12 weeks and between 2020 and 2022.

So there is chance this was planned on some degree by Western organizations and maybe they lost control of the phenomenon.

@freemo @HarryChenPhD @elia

Little update:

Xiaomi donates tens of thousands of masks to Italy; "We are waves of the same sea, leaves of the same tree, flowers of the same garden"

https://it.mashable.com/coronavirus/2275/xiaomi-dona-migliaia-di-mascherine-allitalia

No news from Western politically correct corporations like Apple, Google, Microsoft and so on, they are in just when it's a matter of exploiting workers rights in China.

We should think about what's worse: the Chinese government or our neoliberist and neofeudal world?

And in the meanwhile Assange...

@freemo @HarryChenPhD @elia

Let me say that while China is a human rights violator this is nothing compared to the US Empire and what it did for decades and is currently doing to the rest of the world, in addition to their hypocrisy in presenting their selves as defenders of democracy.

Also it's worth noticing that during this virus crisis Italy didn't get any help from other European countries like Germany or France nor from USA. What Europe got from USA now are 30 000 soldiers which officially came for military exercises as if the coronavirus was not here.

On the other hand China sent us in Italy masks with encouraging messages (see image below, it says: "we are with you, come on Italy!").