timorl @timorl@social.cleverlibre.org

@freemo Oh, and despite the extreme examples I don't mean extremes here. I'm trying to point out that the balance in the US is much more geared towards "property first" while in most of Europe it's much more geared toward "solidarity first". Neither are on the extreme end of the spectrum, and Europe doesn't have significantly more communal property than the US (I think?), but the social contracts are still visibly different.

@freemo I understand that perspective, but I feel it still ignores the core of what I mean (or maybe just disagrees with it on a very fundamental level). If you think of a social contract as a, well, contract, then people shouldn't be forced to accept it if the terms are ridiculously unfafourable to them. You wouldn't really call someone selfish for refusing to accept a contract with very bad terms. It's not quite the same with social contracts of course, but the perspective is not completely invalid either.

As a pretty extreme example consider feudalism. It concentrates on protecting the property rights of the monarch (for simplicity lets say in the Russian sense of owning everything in the country). The peasants get little out of this contract -- at best they get some protection from outside threats and the possibility to live relatively peacefully. I would say in this case they can break the contract (by revolting) without being labelled unusually selfish.

I'm not saying this is the main thing fueling the current US riots (and definitely not saying the current US social contract is as bad as the extreme feudalism example!), only it's an interesting perspective as to what form they are taking.

@freemo Oh no, that wasn't my point at all. I mean, I agree that this is related to selfishness, and someone completely selfless wouldn't do any of that. But my point was rather that countries/cultures in which social contracts concentrate less on protecting property and more on e.g. economic solidarity have people more hesitant to break the rules.

I encountered this concept fist in a discussion of homeless people shitting in streets. Since the social contract does not give homeless people literally anything (this was true at least for some of them in the context of the discussion) why would they feel the need to abide by even its simplest requirements? I think this situation is similar, although the contribution from this effect is relatively smaller.

> not a damn one of them own property or a business...

@freemo Heh, if you social contract concentrates on protecting property, then it's not very surprizing that people who don't own any don't feel firmly attached to it.

Not that I condone looting/arson of course, this part of your toot just seemed amusing to me.

@rysiek
What the heck did I just read...

Shitty #keyboard modification for #steno.

@velartrill Not sure if you still need it, but here are my laptop & server, both running Gentoo:

Linux whumass 5.4.28-gentoo #1 SMP Tue Apr 28 13:47:05 CEST 2020 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6300HQ CPU @ 2.30GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

Linux wuatek 4.19.97-gentoo #1 SMP Wed Feb 12 19:01:27 CET 2020 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3470 CPU @ 3.20GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

Huh, I haven't rebooted the server after the kernel update, should probably do that...

@velartrill
As I'm part of the problem here maybe I can provide some insight.

I tried going through the instructions on the GNU website on how to correctly license your project under GPL. They are quite complicated and I couldn't really tell what data do I need to put where - do I need these silly headers in all files, just one or none is fine? Do I need a separate file with a contributors list? Which parts of the license should I modify by adding the name of the project, my name or whatever else? How do I indicate that the license doesn't encompass some of the that have their own licenses? Does any of this impact the legality?

Maybe the answer is nothing above really matters, and I should've just slapped the license on and left it at that. But the manual scared me of, and I just slapped MIT on, because I knew this was at least common practice. For the record I tried this twice.

Maybe I'm just stupid, but I'd say the instructions not being clear enough are at least part of the problem. :/