@linmob @2ck I look at it more as a proof of concept device. It's not marketed as a flagship replacement. If you pick one up expecting that, you've already set yourself up for disappointment.

@jawsh I wasn't expecting a showstopper, but it's really lacking functionality that I'd consider basic for a smartphone product. It makes me wonder who managed product design and testing - do they not have enough issues already to keep devs busy for a while that they need to farm more issues from customers?
@linmob

@2ck @linmob such as? I've been using mine as a daily driver since it arrived and the basics are all there. As for all the issues, I'm guessing that is where the "beta" comes into play.

@jawsh I wasn't able to use the SMS app, KDE Connect SMS, to send text messages. That's the biggest. The contacts app doesn't pull my SIM card contacts. The screen sleep settings aren't effective - the screen just turns off while I'm using the phone. The screen doesn't reliably turn on when I press the power button.
There are other first-boot issues I wrote down
@linmob

@2ck @linmob I ordered the beta edition and was absolutely not a fan of Manjaro + KDE. Try Mobian or PostmarketOS with Phosh. Much better IMO. The screen on with power doesn't seem to be an issue. Texting and calls works with T-Mobile and AT&T. No issues with the screen turning off randomly for me. I can't comment on sim contacts as I use Nextcloud to sync mine.

@2ck @jawsh @linmob
> The contacts app doesn't pull my SIM card contacts.

Wait. Did you have a feature phone (AKA dumb phone) before this? I've come late to smartphones, only having two Android phones since 2015. And I never found how to save my contacts to the SIM card. Android doesn't seem to support it.

@2ck @jawsh @linmob SMS works for me, but I have all your other issues. I exported my contacts from another phone (or rather had done so as a backup years ago and had the file handy) and then copied it to my PinePhone with sftp or something and got my contacts added that way. (IIRC SIMs can't hold that many contacts anyway, so I don't use the SIM as my main contacts storage) I can't remember what I had to do to import them. I think install something I didn't have previously, but that might come on the phone now.
The screen/sleep stuff is *maddening*. It sleeps really fast by default with no way to increase the delay as far as I know. I also noticed the power button issue very recently. I just pressed mine 3 times before anything showed on the screen, and it wasn't off or anything.
Things are incredibly rough despite what some optimists may say. I can't use mobile data on plasma mobile, which feels pretty major.
I do actually believe things will get better. I was a pretty early adopter (UBPorts Community Edition) and stuff like hardware acceleration, 60fps fix, better FDE keyboard on pmOS, and other changes have really made it better from how it was before. It's just still not that good at all. Maybe it needs another couple years, I'm not really sure how difficult some of these remaining issues are to solve.
I keep mine plugged in at my desk and will mainly just ssh into it to run updates and then reboot it every once in a while. If I try to actually use it, I'm likely to just get mad about various things. I use an android phone without a SIM around the house for stuff like browsing away from the computer or using XMPP/Matrix and other stuff you'd typically do.
Phosh works better, but it sucks because it's brought to you by GNOME people. Basically it's bad because of intentional design decisions that will likely never change. For that reason alone I am supportive of people trying to make Plasma Mobile usable. If you were in a pinch and had no other phone, maybe boot another distro using Phosh from an SD card.
Coming from desktop GNU/Linux, you would think (or I would anyway) that differences in the DE/Compositors would be minor, but they don't even use the same software for modem stuff. If I went back to Phosh, my mobile data should work, I think.
This sounds like fragmentation, and some people might assume Plasma Mobile is doing weird stuff instead of following Phosh standards, but what I've learned over the years is that it's GNOME that never follows standards, especially in the Wayland world. It's probably good to get non-Phosh stuff working better for the future of the platform.

@brad @jawsh @2ck While I have had a few gripes with GNOME over the years, it's not all bad here. Purism got most priorities right, and I am only writing most to not offend MMS users.
I would not worry about Wayland standards, as Phosh is a using a wlroots-based compositor and thus differs from what "big GNOME" does over the years.

@linmob @jawsh @2ck I didn't actually know Phosh used wlroots, that is extremely comforting to hear.

@2ck @jawsh The actual @plasmamobile SMS app is called Spacebar. KDE Connect SMS would be the right choice if you were to send SMS via a KDE Connect connected device, e.g. an Android smartphone.
But yes, that launcher should be hidden, as it can be confusing.

@2ck @jawsh @linmob
Basically you're saying you didn't bother reading the text on the PP product page before ordering. Let me paste it here for you.

> This is the Beta Edition of the PinePhone. The pre-installed Manjaro with Plasma Mobile OS, that ships with this edition of the PinePhone, is a beta software build. This effectively means that while core functionality of the PinePhone still an ongoing effort. Thus, the device cannot considered a consumer-ready product.

@2ck @jawsh @linmob
If I sounded harsh in one of my other replies, it's because of this:

> they need to farm more issues from customers?

That you're using the term "consumer" makes me wonder if you are aware of what this project is, and how it's developed. Did you look at the wiki before getting your Pinephone? Did you go on the forum?

As for your issues, did you try to update your phone? But I agree with @jawsh regarding Phosh being more usable right now. I don't understand this choice...

@2ck @jawsh @linmob
... The only reason I can see for PINE64 choosing to install Plasma Mobile rather than Phosh is that it's sexier, and it looks a lot like Android, so it's more aligned to people's expectations of a smartphone. But IMHO, since ordinary "consumers" shouldn't be getting this phone in the first place, this was a mistake.

@normandc
I did read the product page. I didn't use the word "consumer". I understand that it's a community project (and that many people in that community are on Mastodon). On Masto, I'm seeing a lot of folks talking like Pinephone is a useable smartphone ("daily driver"), but having now used it, I'd say it's pretty far off the mark. Maybe the Pinephone is just meant to stay as a community project for computer geeks like us to tinker with: that's fine.
@jawsh @linmob

@2ck @normandc @linmob it is usable but far from finished/perfect. Again, note the "BETA" bit. It lays groundwork for future mobile Linux devices. Read up on Android in it's early days compared to today.

@2ck @jawsh @linmob
I stand corrected, I wrote consumer while you actually did write customer. Sorry, my poor excuse is it was late when I replied. Still, it may not be "daily driver" for you, but I've been using mine as such for 5 weeks now (not Plasma, mind you). It all depends on what you expect from a phone and the compromises you're willing to live with.

I'm not shy about my troubles with it either. But I don't like the alternative - going back to my Android spy device full time.

@linmob @2ck omg i had forgotten openmoko was a thing! some things are fun to remember

@ivanrancic best on what metrics?

@2ck
on a combined measure of all that matter

@ivanrancic no, seriously: I'd like to know what makes it the best in your eyes.

As a usable product, it falls flat in several ways. It couldn't read my SIM card's contacts. The UI is laggy. Touch screen has too much friction. Remaining charge estimation is unstable (moves up and down without charging the phone). Temperature control seems insufficient: the phone heats up when I'm doing hardly anything. Several of the default apps are, as admitted on the wiki, are either partially implementing features or only stubbing them out.

I think several issues can be resolved with a more polished OS. Yes, I can install a different OS, but Pine64 *chose* the OS to put on as a default, so I would hope the picked the best they could find/build for the hardware: If not, then WTF are they thinking?

@2ck imagine how good it will be if it's already the greatest with those issues!

Of course it has issues. But it's incredible how much just Plasma Mobile grew over the last year alone (let alone all projects).

GNU/Linux on phones is a wonderful endeavor, with PinePhone being one of its basic elements. The whole thing is so much more than a hardware or software. It's about an idea, a vision. A small glimpse of a better future in this confused and so often wicked world.