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@freemo that would have to be a Republican then I suppose. I'm all for that party to find its way back to sanity so I can think about maybe voting for them again someday. But they have a long way to come back imho.
It's hard to imagine a Republican winning the 2024 primary who doesn't at least signal that they want to ban abortion and trans health care and increase preferential treatment of the Christian majority. I hope I'm wrong. Not to mention any critical thinking about the harms of capitalism (not that Biden is any better on that front though).
> that would have to be a Republican then I suppose.
Why would you think that? There are at least 4 choices for president in every election, and some states have quite a few more choices.
> I'm all for that party to find its way back to sanity so I can think about maybe voting for them again someday. But they have a long way to come back imho.
I agree about this but both in reference to the Democrats and Republicans.. both have long since devolved into insanity and of the many parties to choose from these two remain my bottom two choices.
> It's hard to imagine a Republican winning the 2024 primary who doesn't at least signal that they want to ban abortion and trans health care and increase preferential treatment of the Christian majority.
Yup, quite a few distasteful things from the republicans that make it quite hard to support them.
> Not to mention any critical thinking about the harms of capitalism
Capitalism harmful, if anything we've seen the opposite that communism is harmful and capitalism far preferable.. Aside from maybe north korea I cant think of a single major country that isnt a capitalism in the world today. Most of the communist countries have long since failed.
That said, the problem with america is we have monopolies (like amazon) that have taken over our markets, which means they arent free markets anymore... The problem with america isnt capitalism (free markets) its the lack of capitalism (monopolies making the market not free)
> Why would you think that? There are at least 4 choices for president in every election, and some states have quite a few more choices.
I know that me treating it like a two-party system contributes to that being true, but it's hard to believe that voting for any other party has any chance of actually selecting a winner without some big shake-up. Who knows though, maybe a Trump arrest could be just such a shake-up.
> if anything we’ve seen the opposite that communism is harmful and capitalism far preferable
I'm somewhat convinced of this, but I'm not ready to write off communism completely based on the few implementations so far. I guess I just hope that a system that includes massive exploitation isn't the very best that humanity can do. Maybe there's a better choice than both out there.
> Most of the communist countries have long since failed.
Often with some significant "help" from the US, I think. But it does seem like several have imploded mostly on their own.
> The problem with america isnt capitalism (free markets) its the lack of capitalism (monopolies making the market not free)
I'm pretty sure both are a problem. Capitalism because it incentivises greed and funnels power to those willing to exploit others. Monopolies because they lock up that power in very few hands.
Both can have upsides too - capitalism seems pretty good at producing innovation and increasing quality of life, at least for many people. I won't defend monopolies but I can imagine potential for making big moves that wouldn't otherwise be possible.
> I know that me treating it like a two-party system contributes to that being true, but it’s hard to believe that voting for any other party has any chance of actually selecting a winner without some big shake-up. Who knows though, maybe a Trump arrest could be just such a shake-up.
minor parties with previously <2% support in past elections have managed to win 51% of the vote in an election and become a major party a total of 8 times in USA history... so while its true it doesnt happen often, it certainly is possible.
Regardless even though its a long-shot, im going to vote for the best candidate, not some evil candidate just cause a bunch of people think the evil candidate will win, thats still no reason to vote for him.
> I’m somewhat convinced of this, but I’m not ready to write off communism completely based on the few implementations so far. I guess I just hope that a system that includes massive exploitation isn’t the very best that humanity can do. Maybe there’s a better choice than both out there.
Exploitation of humans **must** happen under Communism. You cant steal everyones property and give it away and not have exploirtation of humans, thats your starting point because taking what I built/own/earned with my own two hands is exploitation.
In capitalism exploitation is optional. So at least you have a sane baseline on which to build that isnt exploitive.
We agree we need to address exploitation regardless though.
> Often with some significant “help” from the US, I think. But it does seem like several have imploded mostly on their own.
The USA certainly wasnt friendly towards them.. considering the whole mass murder thing that goes along with communism though I cant blame them.
But in most cases it was the people of communist countries that overwhelmingly demanded communism end.. it never needed much help from the USA as is seen from its own people's response.
> I’m pretty sure both are a problem. Capitalism because it incentivises greed and funnels power to those willing to exploit others. Monopolies because they lock up that power in very few hands.
Can't say I agree. Incentive's greed is a cop-out IMO. Greed is FAR more incentivized in a communistic society where you are poor and starving by default. Therefor you are **hugely** incentivized to hoard things illegally and in secret, because if you arent greedy, you die.
In a capitalism your free to generate wealth, so you dont need to resort to illegal tactics like stealing and cheating anymore, you can just do good honest work creating something of value that didnt exist before.. you can even become a billionair without hurting anyone since wealth is free to be created and it is incentivized to add new wealth to the world (rather than just hoard resources).
@freemo @strawd
> Exploitation of humans must happen under Communism. You cant steal everyones property and give it away and not have exploirtation of humans, thats your starting point because taking what I built/own/earned with my own two hands is exploitation.
Dude, you reeeeally have to define communism here. It might clear up a lot.
Definition of my own: "Exploitation": Someone stronger decides to take what you have, disregarding fair exchange.
Heard of that happening in any system?
