> Plan9 may be utilizing the mouse well but the mouse navigation as a whole **feels** different, it's an entirely different way to look at things.
I know, as I covered elsewhere.
> You gain in one area, you lose in another.
If you look at the larger picture, the system as a whole, this is a small concern at the bottom of the list. People complain about the parentheses in Lisp, note that M-LISP was a thing and that it's possible in theory to do your math all infix-y by means of a complicated system of pulleys and levers implemented as macros, but nobody does Lisp that way: anyone that knows enough Lisp to write that also knows enough Lisp to know why you don't need it, and the prefix syntax and all the parentheses seem like a small concern. Same thing with Forth. Same thing with monolithic applications and Unix programming (which favors small programs in pipelines), in fact.
is 9front's progressivism a joke or not?
Insisting on ideological purity from the developers of software is the worst thing someone can do. Mastodon sucks because it sucks, not because it's run by a bunch of...I don't even know what. Soapbox sucks because it sucks, not because Gleason is a male-feminist vegan that wants to go full-
on trans people. Akkoma doesn't get any magical fairy dust for being STUNNING AND BRAVE, it's just the dev branch for Pleroma with some bad ideas merged in. Pleroma is wonderful software and this, as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with feature bounties having been paid by a cam site, despite Gleason's retarded "BALORMO TRAFFICS CHILDREN" rant, and despote all the allegations of the trans people hacking on Pleroma being secretly transphobic Nazis. The FSF wants to kick 
out and that's a travesty, because it doesn't matter what Stallman's personal opinions on 
are. Linus getting strong-armed into adding a Code of Conduct. All of it. It's cancer. Good software is good software, bad software is bad software, and none of the rest of it matters.I boot up this software and I enjoy what happens. 9front is not the only version of Plan 9 available; I use ANTS. 9legacy is good too. At no point has anything political happened to me when running this software (except occasionally if I execute fortune(1) or something). That is exactly what I want when I run software. I do not have much interest in the political leanings of anyone involved in the project: code is code. I barely have interest in anyone's political leanings. I just don't care: politics is the most boring possible topic on earth. Political philosophy is interesting, geopolitics is interesting, regular philosophy is interesting; I'm not even doing those on here until I am posting from Revolver, though, and after last week (fiasco week) and this week (hell week) I am fresh out of fucks to give about anyone being worried that someone else might be
or 
.I've gotten this question about a million times and my answer from now on is that if it's important to you, go run an OS written by people that agree with you. If it is not important to you, it is good software, try it out. If you don't want to try it out, that's fine. If you don't want to try it out because you don't like the website made by someone in charge of making the website for this fork of this OS, I'll make fun of you, but I won't care. I'm not especially trying to evangelize it: the perpetual drive for YOLD killed Linux. You can build something that a small number of people love, or that a large number of people kinda like. Plan 9 is something a small number of people really love. I really love it; I would like to share it with people that I think would also love it. Consider spicy food: you can make something that's extremely spicy, burns people up, and a handful of people will enjoy it and the rest will have a painful experience. If you make something that's fairly spicy, it'll appeal to more people; if you make something that's completely bland, it'll be edible for everyone but the people that want really spicy food are going to be unhappy with it. So it is a comfortable OS for hacking, I recommend it to hackers, I talk about it a lot because I like it, but I don't mind if it doesn't get popular: to become popular, it would have to dilute the things that make it interesting. This disincentivizes me from caring if some superficial thing puts somebody off, like if they don't like some icons on a website and they're more worried about that than the code.
>Insisting on ideological purity from the developers of software is the worst thing someone can do.
I agree but the issue with this kind of grandstanding is that it generally implies that the *developer* insists on ideological purity from its *users*. This also sends the message that ideological purity takes priority over everything, which leads to software that does not prioritize function or efficiency. Just take a look at AntiX Linux. Why is the very first adjective they use to describe it "proudly anti-fascist"? How does that benefit me as a user of this software? Why the hell even bring up fascism in the first place? I think in the last 8 years people have lost the mental maturity to not publicly shout and complain about every little annoyance in places where it's completely irrelevant.
antix.PNG
Pretty sure it's just trolling fascists. I think they added that because they included some anti-authoritarian anti-Zionist texts with the distro. The motto clears up the assumption that they're anti-Semites, as well as scares away actual Nazis.
There's a difference between being anti-fascist and being a woke zealot, don't forget. As I said, I am anti-fascist myself.
@7 @11112011 @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius @straw
bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
@cyberspook @ScatmansWorldFSE
just don't use it? it's debian based after all, much to choose from in that department.
also, people who have to virtue signal their "anti fascism" the loudest are those who wouldn't notice fascism anyway, as they have turned into what they hate most.
Idk, I fine with Debian, it's systemd that I could do with out. Devuan is pretty nice.
I kind kind of remember some crap with Chromium. Everytime I would open a video streaming site it would crash.
They still get security patches, you can set it to automatically apply them in the background.
@7 @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius @straw
I really like the package manager on Void. XBPS is pretty comfy.
"Antifa are the real fascists."
Oh, boy. Conservative talking points. Here we go again. What's next? Anti-communists are the real communists? Anti-Trumpists are the real Trump supporters? Anti-Semites are Jewish?
@ScatmansWorldFSE @11112011 @ins0mniak @helene @7 @p @straw
@cyberspook
that's not the point i made :)
> What's next? Anti-communists are the real communists? Anti-Trumpists are the real Trump supporters? Anti-Semites are Jewish?
given the state of the world and the general madness, that's precisely what i'd expect, yes.
> Oh, boy. Conservative talking points.
Doesn't matter who said it if it's accurate. People setting cars on fire and knocking down statues and assaulting people in the street and throwing bottles at people with cameras are assholes attempting to use force to compel people. "It's okay because we're not fascists!" is the rallying cry of people that care more about the affectations and trappings than they do about whether or not they are doing exactly the same shit.
> What's next? Anti-communists are the real communists?
:davidkoreshlol: What about "The FBI are the real terrorists?"
Of course, that doesn't mean that opposing them means you're not also a terrorist.
It's kind of absurd to try to shut something down by saying "You can't say that they're as bad as the people they oppose! That's something a boomer would say!"
But it's possible, as Stalin and Trotsky demonstrated, that you can fight against communists while still being a communist. (Or see the Sino-Vietnamese War.) And I could certainly
> Anti-Semites are Jewish?
Okay, well, hear me out: https://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm is an orthodox Jewish organization that claims Zionists provoked the Holocaust and that they control the media and they conclude with an "Israel delenda est".
Anyway, pic related:racist_fish.jpg
@straw @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook https://www.r-project.org/
R is a wonderful tool for statistical analysis and visualization.
@straw @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook sorry, I must’ve misunderstood the question.
If you can shape the data in a way R can read (CSV, TSV usually) it’s extremely simple to then pass it to the hist() or barplot() functions. Also there’s a permagraph being rendered on fedi.quest if you need one of his references:
@straw @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook It’s really early so I really hope Pete wakes up in like an hour and takes the time to correct everything I’m getting wrong with this. I haven’t even had a coffee yet.
what is the specific way it visualizes them?
You know, I thought I knew but then I opened up an rc shell in rio for myself, called os R --no-save to run R from the host machine, and tried to draw an image to the rc shell… with no luck. So I apologise I wasn’t able to answer your question, I had gotten a bit ahead of myself.
@p @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook @straw Ooh, that is beautiful; thank you!
@p @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook @straw the second example doesn’t work because ichart.finance.yahoo.com doesn’t seem to be a thing anymore; hasn’t been since 2017 I think. I’m trying to find an equivalent service.
@p @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook @straw I’ve fucked up sharing this so much that I am horrifically ashamed but it seems worse to NOT share what I found so
hget 'http://api.marketstack.com/v1/eod?access_key=ACCESS_KEY&symbols=DJIA&date_from=2000-01-01&date_to=2022-08-25&limit=10000' |\
os jq -r '.data | (map(keys) | add | unique) as $cols | map(. as $row | $cols | map($row[.])) as $rows | $cols, $rows[] | @csv' |\
histogram -t DJIA -v 30.0 -h
(FSE doesn't proxy media, this is one of the times when that's a good case.)
> and it had notes on events that made the size go up
I scribbled on that graph in
.
You install the R programming language, then you start up R and then you tell it to install some "R but for plebs" libraries:
$ R
[ a bunch of initialization noise ]
> install.packages("tidyverse")
> install.packaged("lubridate")
Then once they're installed you tell R to just autoinclude those libraries by putting this into your .Rprofile:
$ echo 'library(lubridate);library(tidyverse);options(crayon.enabled=FALSE)' > .Rprofile
$ R
[even more initialization noise, plus notifications that tidyverse conflicts with some builtins]
>
Then you can start making graphs and whatnot:
> d <- read.csv("filename.csv", header=FALSE)
> qplot(V1, data=d)
You can also ask it for help with things, by just taking a function name and prepending a "?", so you get the qplot documentation by typing `?qplot`.
Or you can do something fancy, like you have a TSV of "$unix_timestamp\t$scalar_value\n" and you want to draw a line and also fit a curve and color it based on the value:
> d <- read.csv("filename.tsv", sep="\t", header=FALSE)
> qplot(data=d, as.POSIXct(V1, origin="1970-01-01"), V2, geom=c("line","smooth"), color=V2, xlab="time", ylab="some value you wanted to plot")
There's a lot of stuff you can do with qplot(), but qplot() is a pleb frontend to ggplot(). You can change the output device so instead of popping up on your screen, it writes a PNG or a PDF or something. There's also "Shiny", which is a web thinger, RScript which is designed for scripting rather than interactive use, and there is a coolguy thing called "R Notebook" and I don't use any of that stuff and I don't know anything about how to use it. You can also do things like allegedly R is really good for math but I have never used it for that, either. It has libraries for doing SQL queries against a live database and support for Redis and whatnot. I just do all the alterations of the data in other languages (just awk 90% of the time) and then use R to draw a pretty graph and then instead of fiddling with `dev.new(file="/tmp/x.png")` or whatever, I just screenshot the output window, like a pleb.
@p @7 @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook that’s weird, it gives me this
In read.table(file = file, header = header, sep = sep, quote = quote, :
incomplete final line found by readTableHeader on 'filename.tsv'
hmm it still doesn't quite look like your thing... maybe it does and I'm stupid
People setting cars on fire and knocking down statues and assaulting people in the street and throwing bottles at people with cameras are assholes attempting to use force to compel people.
Using force is fascism apparently. Using force is somehow the same as a territorial monopoly on violence with a totalitarian level of control and an ultranationalist bent. Well, I guess war is fascism then. Then every country is fascist, like, don’t you see your own contradiction? You’re basically mimicking radlibs’ “Everyone who disagrees with me is a fascist” argument.
“It’s okay because we’re not fascists!” is the rallying cry of people that care more about the affectations and trappings than they do about whether or not they are doing exactly the same shit.
That’s a very moralist argument of yours. I dislike fascists not because they’re EBIL but because they’re totalitarians. Do I want them to step their boot on my face? No, I don’t.
It’s kind of absurd to try to shut something down by saying “You can’t say that they’re as bad as the people they oppose! That’s something a boomer (?) would say!”
Where did you read this? That’s literally conservative talking points, that’s just a fact. Where did I say that you can’t say conservative talking points or that conservatives are boomers? Where did you find this in my post?
But it’s possible, as Stalin and Trotsky demonstrated, that you can fight against communists while still being a communist.
That’s because they’re not anti-communists. Stalin is an anti-revisionist, Trotsky is an anti-Stalinist. They’re both communists. The same way both progressives and conservatives support capitalism but the first one is anti-Trump, the second one is anti-woke.
Okay, well, hear me out: https://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm is an orthodox Jewish organization that claims Zionists provoked the Holocaust and that they control the media and they conclude with an “Israel delenda est”.
Anti-Zionism isn’t the same as anti-Semitism. Quite a few anarchists are anti-Zionist, including the anarcho-egoist Emma Goldman. Who was of Russian-Jewish descent.
@7 @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius @straw
> Stalin was an anti-revisionist
When it comes to Marxism-Leninism obviously. Other than that… not so much.
@11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius @straw
> That’s a very moralist argument of yours. I dislike fascists not because they're EBIL but because they're totalitarians.
You called the argument moralist and then restated it. But what is totalitarianism? It's a political philosophy that doesn't recognize a limit on its application, and it has at its core the authority of the state. It's not materially different from most of the popular political philosophies right now. You rarely hear "politics don't apply here"; this thread itself has "This keyboard layout is capitalism's fault!" in it.
> That’s literally conservative talking points, that’s just a fact.
Saying that it's a fact doesn't indicate whether or not it's relevant; it is not relevant and wasn't the point anyway.
We're way out in the weeds here; I said I was leaving the thread, I'm leaving the thread. I just can't care about any of it. I have shit to do and I have more notifications than I want and I was having fun talking about Plan 9, light entertainment, transfer of knowledge between parties interested in a topic. I am bored to tears over politics (who is doing what), tweaks to keyboard layouts and window managers; I like political philosophy (considering systems of people), though discussions of that tend to run long and I can't spend a couple of hours thinking about politics when I've got work to do. So I talk about the Octopus system and you brush that off as boring. So what are we talking about? I don't wish to be advocated at. Go see @pnotifbot, it basically measures my patience for such things.
Antifascists are fascists because they adopt fascist tactics and beliefs. The FBI are terrorists because they adopt terroristic tactics and beliefs. Semites are the real antisemites because nobody hates Jews more than Jews.
Humanity is predisposed to hypocrisy.
@7 @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook @straw
Thank you. Your opinions are deeply meaningful to me.
@7 @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius @cyberspook
Well, the FBI aren't terrorists because terrorism is relative to the state, not the other way around. As one great German named Max Stirner once said: "The state considers its own violence law but that of the individual — crime."
Fascism is a monopoly on violence. To combat the monopoly on violence it makes sense to employ violence against this monopoly. That's what anarcho-nihilists do. You can call this immoral. You can call this cruel and inhumane. But it isn't fascist. No more than Trump is a fascist. Otherwise fascism is just a meaningless moralistic insult. Whatever you do, get away with it, might makes right. No matter how much I dislike fascists, at least they understand these basic things. Whether someone considers us the same doesn't change the fact that we hate each other however, that's why anti-fascists call themselves anti-fascists. Because they hate fascists. You know, this culturally far-right movement that wants to install a hyper-authoritarian autocrat and a corporatist mode of production and advocates extreme nationalism.
@7 @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius @straw
I hate the FBI because they censor and control leftist dissidents and work to maintain the status quo
You hate the FBI because they stop Nazis and raided a heavily-armed cult
We are not the same
Uh, we are the same, actually. I don't disagree.
@7 @11112011 @ScatmansWorldFSE @ins0mniak @p @helene @bonifartius @Leyonhjelm
