Hey
Hey people upset that others find abortion to be necessary
How about working for a society that people want to raise kids in?
Because as it stands, what you call "child sacrifice", I can "mercy"
bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
@r000t counterpoint: people should stop fucking if they don't want to deal with the consequences.
or cut up their respective tubing.
@bonifartius
You'll then only wind up with stupid people, who are incapable of thinking about future consequences, reproducing.
I know I don't want that.
@r000t unfortunately that hasn't worked out so far even with abortions being common :P
i agree that having shit parents is probably close to what could be called hell on earth.
i also think the more feverish supporters of abortion are creepy in how blase they talk about killing life. they seem to _enjoy_ it and it's unsettling.
@bonifartius @r000t Really this conversation is about what kinds of human life is sacred and worth protecting.
No reasonable person who advocate for the protection of a small clump of cells, and no one reasonable would advocate for the murder of a normal, healthy new-born baby.
Personally, before 20 weeks its hard to advocate for anything that would be worth preserving.
@wholemilk @r000t
trying to find the cut-off age where it's ok and where it isn't is not the problem.
the very idea to talk about something "worth of preserving" and "clump of cells" instead of a "baby" is the problem. thinking like this is an evil. people stop valuing the spirit of life because of this line of thought. at least call things by their name even if it makes you uncomfortable. bear the consequences of your actions.
it's the same for food (amongst many other things). you either can be grateful for the spirit of life which made it possible to nurture you. or you can treat it as something life- and soulless which fulfills a technical purpose.
when i experience nature with it's all embracing force of life it's pretty clear to me that there are things ratio can't grasp. against my strong inner feeling i had since childhood, i once in hubris strayed from acknowledging this spirit of life. thinking everything can be quantified and put into numbers. it only led me to deep pain.
the scientific philosophers of old had many flaws of their own but they knew better than to forsake the spiritual aspect of life.
@bonifartius @r000t Would you give a clump of 100 human-cells the same moral weight of a crying, screaming new born baby?
@wholemilk @r000t that's still not the point. "a clump of 100 human-cells" has a past and future. it doesn't only exist in a vacuum called "now".
"a clump of 100 human-cells" because i scraped my knee is different from "a clump of 100 human-cells" which develops into a screaming new born baby because i had intercourse.
the cells from knee scraping will never (aside experiments best described as man-made horrors) grow into a human being.
the cells from the unification of sperm and egg are unique and will, with a bit of luck, be a human being. it could be only the first cell for that matter, not even hundreds.
note i never said that there is no reason for abortions, there are cases where it's still sad but the best choice.
the slovenly way their proponents talk about them, "clump of cells" etc., is what is so evil. it's the spark of life and they act like it is an empty box of cheap wine.
@wholemilk @r000t
> But they will never be a human being outside of the mother until gestated into full grown human.
i wonder how it gets outside of a mother.
ripped by force, precisely as the cells of my scraped knee.
> A clump of cells doesn't have a name, thoughts or opinions, memories etc.
neither does a newborn!
@bonifartius @r000t a newborn has opinions. It wants to be fed and cared for, and it will cry if it isn't. It has a concious experience, unlike the former
@wholemilk @r000t it desires to live, just like the "clump of cells". is it valuable just because it can cry which evokes emotion in you? the "concious experience", argument led to descartes doing vivisections of animals because those _clearly_ are just soulless automata. not just this, but how do you even decide a being has conciousness? you or i could be perfect replicas of an human to the outside observer but lacking qualia.
@bonifartius @r000t withouth being "ultimate sceptic" here, i axiomatically assert you are conscious because you are a human with a similar brain structure as me.
And having a desire to live doesn't make it worthy of moral consideration. Bacteria that kills people has a "will to live".
@bonifartius @r000t But they will never be a human being outside of the mother until gestated into full grown human.
Also I don't think having "the spark of life"gives it value. The cells in your knee, while they are not sufficient enough to be come a human themselves, are not valuable to me. A fully living,breathing human with true prior experience.
A clump of cells doesn't have a name, thoughts or opinions, memories etc. . It isn't wielding, in my opinion, moral weight.