Israel is going about this all wrong.
@Linux_Is_Best @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs no offense, but is there ever a right way to go about genocide? They’ve been doing a quieter version of this for decades.
They have, while terrorist and fascist groups in Palestine, Iran, Syria, Yemen, etc. have been killing and threatening Israelis since its inception, not just due to WW1, but because they're Jewish people and close to Western ideologies.
The Levant should not have been conquered, but same as with Taiwan there is no justification to just undo a working democratic nation.
We need to recognize the rights of each side, not tolerate their crimes
@ekes @justpeachy @Linux_Is_Best @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs
(1.) The terrorist IDF is killing innocent children in Gaza. Nothing can justify that.
(2.) Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism for the same reason that anti-Nazism is not anti-Germanism.
(3.) Israel is not a "democratic nation," or even a nation at all. By definition, a nation has fixed borders.
@LevZadov @ekes @justpeachy @Linux_Is_Best @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs (1) How should they defend themselves? I'm hearing a lot this kind of thing – describing Gaza as an open-air prison, and so on. But no coherent alternative IDF could be pursuing instead.
It would be great if there was some magical way Israel could end Hamas without any civilian casualties, but I don't know if that is possible. Like in WW2, we killed, what, like a million German civilians? That was awful. We probably could have done better. But certainly not 0, right?
@ech @ekes @justpeachy @Linux_Is_Best @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs
Why are you defending genocide and apartheid?
@LevZadov @ekes @justpeachy @Linux_Is_Best @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs You see the allies' actions in WW2 as "genocide"? They were *stopping* an actual genocide, although I don't think that was the main goal. Well, anyway, like I said, we could have done a lot better there, sure.
@ech @LevZadov @ekes @justpeachy @Linux_Is_Best @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs
Ask @GeorgeTakei if the US participated in genocide in World War 2.
It's important to remember that no matter the nobility of the goal, evil can and does happen.
@kinyutaka @LevZadov @ekes @justpeachy @Linux_Is_Best @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs And those internment camps were far from the worst example of things the Allies should have done differently!
@ech @LevZadov @ekes @justpeachy @Linux_Is_Best @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs
I won't argue against you on that, but it does hammer home the point. Sometimes the fight is between two monsters, and to some people, neither are "in the right"
@kinyutaka @ech @ekes @justpeachy @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs
The fight is not between two monsters. It's between a heavily armed American proxy and a over a million innocent and unarmed children, none of whom are Hamas terrorists. Terrorism is terrorism. Two wrongs don't make a right.
@LevZadov @ech @ekes @justpeachy @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs
Hamas killed a bunch of Innocents, Israel retaliated by killing a bunch of Innocents
It's not that complicated a metaphor.
@kinyutaka @LevZadov @ekes @justpeachy @ItsTrainingCatsAndDogs here's another metaphor: suppose there's a guy who rapes, kills, and kidnaps babies. Then the cops get into a shootout trying to arrest that guy. Someone is killed by a stray bullet.
At this point it's pretty reasonable to thoroughly investigate if the cops are taking necessary precautions to avoid that sort of thing, while at the same time recognizing that it's probably not possible to completely avoid any risk of that and still arrest the rapist baby murderer.
FWIW some people like Jordan Peterson seem to think IDF shouldn't even try to use force here; like in the metaphor don't arrest the guy at all.
