🇳🇱
@realcaseyrollins I am not sure "radical Feminist" is a specific enough description for a TERF. Radical feminism invokes entirely different notions IMO.
@realcaseyrollins Radical Feminism is a general term for any form of feminism that advocates for "extreme change". Its so broad as to not be very descriptive.. A TERF is a specific type of feminism centered around exclusion of transpeople from the community as if it somehow takes away women's rights... It is a far more specific description.
A TERF is a specific type of feminism centered around exclusion of transpeople from the community
Which community?
@realcaseyrollins More importantly as a server they are not inclusive of all forms of radical feminism, only TERFs so far as I can tell.
For example a person who believed all transpeople should have **more** rights than women or men would also be "radical feminism" by definition, but being a TERF instance certainly wouldn't be welcome by almost the entire spinster community.
@freemo That might have been the case but it doesn’t seem to be anymore
Although of course there’s a difference between server rules and how welcoming users are with new entrances lol. Other feminists might very well be welcome on #Spinster but if the existing members are mean to them they’d prolly leave lol
@realcaseyrollins What spinster says on their about page and the rules they claim to set has no relationship to their actual conduct, at least that has been my experience. The rules are just for show, public image. If they had followed their own rules they wouldnt be the only server silenced by QOTO.
@freemo That’s interesting. In my experience, maybe only the first rule has been broken, as they have a lot of anti-male sexists who call me all kinds of names. But of course “hate speech” is an intentionally vague term, that’s why the left uses it.
That said I have yet to see, say, doxxing occur on #Spinster.
@realcaseyrollins I have not witnessed doxxing specifically either. But then again I have never witnessed a moderator banning someone for doxxing a trans person either.
In other words its more likely that the doxxing rule hasnt been tested, more so than it being a rule they have or will apply objectively.
@freemo What rules have you seen violated?
@realcaseyrollins Well the most notable one that we saw here that caused us to silence them (and the only server we ever needed to) was 1) Explicit harassment which was carried out across a large portion of the entire server, not an isolated incident 2) ban evasion to increase the effectiveness of the harassment. That is, once users were blocked by local users for harassment they continually encouraged each other to spin up new users to continue the harassment and bypass individual user blocks.
Since they had explicit rules against harassment it seemed clear to me their rules dont matter much, especially when M.K. herself gave the ok on the above activities.
@freemo Oh no! That’s terrible. That’d even be against our harassment rules here, and they’re quite light.
@realcaseyrollins As you know QOTO is pretty light handed on its moderation. Like i said they are the only server we ever had to silence and even then we made it clear to M.K. we would be happy to remove the silence if in the future we had some insurance that incidents like that would be considered unacceptable and acted on. However MK to this day maintains it was acceptable.
@realcaseyrollins By the way the incidents I describe were over the course of several days. QOTO made several attempts to resolve it civilly before silencing.
I wouldnt say we are quite as relaxed as SPC. Explicit and clear cases of hate speech isnt going to be tolerated here. But generally you have to be trying to be an asshole to wake up the admins/dragons in these parts :)
Its totally valid for you because you dont go around trying to be an asshole :)
Our rules basically come down to "Dont be an asshole, dont intentionally start shit"
The difference is we dont look for excuses to flag someone an asshole either... like it has to be obvious and intentional. Rules are hard to define for that reason, the interpritation means everything.
Illegal is a given but our servers are across multiple countries. So that isnt always so straight forward...
@RikaDerufu @freemo Interesting. I’d assumed that radical feminists are what adherents to transgender ideology call TERFs anyways cuz that’s what they call themselves.
No there are lots of radical feminists who are anti-TERF. In fact I'd say traditional feminists tend to lean more towards being radical than not in general.
@freemo @RikaDerufu Traditional feminists as far as what? There are so many waves man, the only ones I follow are third wave and “TERFism”
By that I mean, most people who describe themselves as feminist tend to have radical views. So more often than not tend to be radical feminists in my experience.
@freemo @RikaDerufu Ah I see. “Topple the patriarchy” and all that jazz. 😂
Liberal feminism = woman like to do thing so thing is good, dick havers with woman id can manipulate lesbians vagina havers into sex bc they are oppressed by them
@RikaDerufu @freemo that doesn’t sound very liberal to me
@RikaDerufu @freemo spinning liberally
No radical feminism is any form of feminism that is contrary to the mainstream form. What you just described is only one manifestation of radicalized feminism. It is not the definition of it.
Here is the normally accepted definition of radical feminism... As you can see it is far more generalized than you suggest:
No, you can be entirely inclusive of transpeople and still very much be a radical. That makes no sense.
@freemo @RikaDerufu Trans ideology is mainstream, what’s so radical about supporting it
Nothing, I stated the other way around, being anti-trans (TERF in this case) is radical.
All TERFs are radicals, not all radicals are TERFs.
Well other way around, not all radical deminism is TERFism, but all TERFism is a radical form of feminism. TERFism is subset, and a rather narrow one.
@RikaDerufu @freemo What? Trans ideology is so mainstream that to oppose it is deemed radical lol
Inclusion of trans people is a central tenate of almost all mainstream feminism. so yea to oppose it would be considered radical by feminism standards for sure. But its only one example of feminists that consider themselves radical.
@freemo @RikaDerufu That is an excellent point actually
@freemo What’s the difference between the two?