Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
US gun fanatics have won the battle of competing pressures on US business,
They have even passed state laws to boycott banks that reject gun companies as clients.
Original: https://stallman.org/archives/2023-jan-apr.html#31_March_2023_(guns_corporate_america_nashville)
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@rms Yikes. #fuckTexas “#Texas passed a law in 2021 requiring #banks underwriting the state’s municipal bond market to certify that they don’t and won’t turn away firearms clients.”
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@rms Those who #boycott #banks that act against #gunControl should also boycott goods & services from #Texas.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@rms “#Visa, #Mastercard and #Discover this month also paused a plan to implement a new merchant category code for the nation’s gun retailers after political pressure from Republicans.” #gunControl
🇳🇱
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
Personally i support this boycott. Banks should not have the right to deny clients based on the legal activities they perform.
We are required by law to use banks and simply can not operate legally as cash businesses. So as long as what you do is legal i will support any law that prevents banks from denying service based on a category of what you sell.
Even if you dislike guns this is a dangerous precedence to let banks decide what you do with your own money.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@freemo @rms What country are you in? Presumably Europe, where the EU has established that ppl have a right to a bank account. Banking is not required by law in the US; nor is it a right. Individuals & companies both have a right to purely use cash in the US if they want. Banks have a right to refuse svc to anyone. Many banks deny service to those operating legally in sex trades. #warOnCash
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
Originally from the USA, thugh thyese days I spend little time there though I do maintain a business and home in the USA.
In the USA a bank is not **directly** required by law, but it is effectively required by law as a consequence of other less direct laws.
For example, I cant legally send cash in the mail, I cant legally transport cash across borders, You cant legally pay for things in large quantities of cash without the help of a bank to show a paper trail, etc.
For all intents and purposes the other existing laws make it impossible to deal with large amounts of money without a bank account.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@freemo @rms It’s a bad risk to send cash by mail, but in the US you are free to do so. You are also free to carry cash across borders as far as the US is concerned (provided that you declare it when traveling inbound & exceeding $10k). A paper trail is not required in the US -- it’s your option. Receipts cover that option (it's not like the EU where accountants demand bank statements).
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
Not entierly true.. Purchases over 10K must show a paper trail and must be reported. I have tried to buy cars and even homes with cash, they simply wont take it without a detail trail on the money.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@koherecoWatchdog
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Have you ever tried to buy an expensive car from a car dealership with cash? Good luck, and they will claim its due to the requirements of IRS reporting that they need to verify the legitimate source of the money before taking it, and therefore wont.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
It isnt their "choice" it is forced upon them due to the requirements placed upon them by the IRS.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
AsI said at the onset, the law does not directly forbid the transaction, but it indirectly makes it infeasible effectively making banks a requirement indirectly.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
Semantics arent really important to me, whether calling it an indirect requirement is appropriate or not is not something that has value to debate... the point is, the laws in place make it virtually impossible to run a large business without using a bank.
Honestly banks shouldnt even be able to know how or where your money comes from, that information should not be accessible to them as I should have some garuntee of privacy over my money.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@freemo @rms The more banks are forced to accept business from anyone, the more the US becomes like Europe, where there is an assumption that everyone can have a bank account, which facilitated some EU countries banning cash transactions. It’s better if we /do not/ have a *right* to have a bank account. It needs to remain a priviledge to keep the #warOnCash at bay.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
I disagree, if we have a fundemental right here a bank can not legally invade our privacy and review the source and destination of our transactions (without a court order) then we can facilitate accepting cash transactions from people who do not have bank accounts, and better secure the right to not needing one.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@freemo @rms That doesn't follow. Banks violate your privacy inherently. Not just by gov. pressure but also by the pressure to profit. Giving people the right to a privacy-compromising bank account enables oppression. It’s important for unbanked people (who are unbanked by choice) be able to say they are unbanked by force.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
they can profit as a bank just fine not knowing where my money came from.. Yes they do violate my privacy to make more money im sure, but there is no inherent need to do so.
Im not saying they cant have some info, how much I deposit, when, , how long my money stays in there... fine.. but they do not need to know who i am transacting with and why to make profit.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
Agreed, which is why they will violate privacy as long as they are allowed to do so, and the urge to maximize profits will always be too high for them to be privacy respecting due to market pressures... which is exactly why we need to make it a law and force them (And all of their competition) to be privacy respecting.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
Im not advocating for the right to have a bank account, that might be a natural consequence of a right to privacy, but it isnt the direct principle at play.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
You hqavent made that case to me... I see no reason in anything you said that you cant be granted a right to privacy even if there isnt an explicit right to be unbanked... though i am all for any laws that ensure you have a right to be unbanked, so im fine with securing that right as well.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
I said it should be against the law to exclude people based on the business they deal in.. that isnt the same to say they need to accept everyone without any conditions of any kind.
If you want to exclude someone because they are below a certain minimum income threshold, or cant keep a certain amount of money in their account, etc... fine... But if they want to exclude someone for where they get their money (which should not be information the bank can access) not fine.
As I said before its like saying "It should be illegal to discriminate against gay people and refuse to sell them a cake because their gay", this is not the same as saying that everyone has the right to cake.. There are other reasons you may get denied access to cake, for one, maybe because you cant afford it.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@rms @freemo A parallel has already played out w/the #rightToBeOnline. Putting everyone online enables the gov to assume everyone has online access, at which point they push you to use their anti-tor captcha-pushing garbage websites. So we need a #rightToBeOffline, so we can invalidate the assumption that we are online.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@koherecoWatchdog But no one is suggesting anything that would assume everyone has a bank account.. I am suggestions protections for people who do have a bank account to enable them to safely use that account to interact with people who dont. Without fear of IRS reprisal.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@freemo The /right/ to have a bank account enables the assumption that everyone has an account, because it enables marginalization of those who are unbanked by choice. It’s better to have those who are unbanked by choice coupled with those who are unbanked not by choice.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@koherecoWatchdog I never said anything about "the right to have a bank account" so everything that follows from that statement is moot.
I said that **if** you have a back account you have a right to privacy over your transactions. They can deny you a bank account all you want, they just cant use who you take or give money to as a criteria to do so since that will not be information available to them.
The right to not be discriminated against if your gay when you buy a cake does not imply a right for everyone to own cakes.. the logic is similar.
Why Corporate America has grown silent on gun violence
@freemo @rms But you can’t use the word “requirement” if that's what you're saying. They are incentivizing bank txns, not banning cash.