i love how anti-maskers are always like "do you think we should continue wearing masks forever?" when people talk about the dangers of covid, as if thats some kind of game-winning gotcha

well, the alternative to masking is catching covid 2-3 times a year, a disease which gives you cardiovascular damage, strokes, brain damage, nerve damage, diabetes, chronic fatigue, lung damage, and dementia. among many other things. and the risk of all of those goes up geometrically the more times you get infected

so, idk man, should we continue to wear masks for the foreseeable future? yes, because i think wearing a mask when out and about is a lot less harmful than any let alone all of those

@eniko

I am not an antimasker, dont care if you wear a mask and wont give you a hard time if you do. But I have had COVID 7 confirmed times so far, and like the rest of society, dont wear a mask most of the time... Yes I think the risk of COVID is worth it for the freedom of not wearing a mask for my entire life.

@freemo
How many chronic conditions can you afford to live with? Mine costs about 1/3 average salary before taxes, and I'd rather not add more, especially ones that affect my ability to pay for that, which neurological ones very well may do.
@eniko

@viq

Not many, and thats the risk you take. Is the small but real chance of long term symtoms worth the comfort of not wearing a mask socially or the other negative aspects of masks (such as its harm to the deaf community).

For me that trade offnis worth it. And with 7 confirmed covid infections i can say so far it remains worth it for me.

@eniko

@freemo
Do you drive without seatbelt as well? It's quite uncomfortable.

Is the small discomfort of wearing a mask really such a burden and too high a price to pay for giving people who can't afford to catch it a better chance of avoiding it?
@eniko

@viq

Sometimes, when i deem the risk to be low compared to tbe discomfort. For example if all im doing is adjusting my car to mover a few feet uo, then no i wont buckle up. On a highway in the rain most certainly.

Same for masks,i will wear one in, say, a hospital or old folks home where the risk is high and its warranted. But you also have to keep in mind masks are significantly less comfortable than a seatbelt, that effects the equation a bit too.

@eniko

@freemo
And protect others, not just yourself. I guess better analogy would be driving after a couple of beers.
Sure, masking while sitting outside may not be necessary. But most indoor places don't provide sufficient ventilation to be safe. Unless you test yourself every morning to make certain you're not asymptotically contagious, in which case I apologise.
@eniko

@viq

Yup, and to protect others. Clearly the vast majority of the population agree with me and find the discomfort not worth benefits.

So I will take their cue and conclude that most "others" likewise dont want people to wear masks either in our day to day.

I would be ok encouraging people to improve ventilation, no issues there. Assuming we can prove conclusively ventalation is an issue and can find reasonable guidlines to get reasonable results.

@eniko

@freemo
I'll just live this here
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1700553395051110572.html
@eniko

@viq

I'd rather hear your opinions than that of some random person who cant defend or discuss points.

@eniko

@freemo
My current opinion requires some time to calm down to not amount to "FU2"
@eniko

@viq

Very responsible of you to recognize that and not act out... please take all the time you need to center yourself and respond when/if you'd like.

I appreciate the effort to remain civil and to not respond that way.

@eniko

@freemo @eniko While this will be longer and more articulated, and maybe more civil, it won't necessarily be *nicer* than the original response. I'm also going to leave OP out of this part of the conversation, they can see it if they're interested, but they most likely know this all well enough, no need to inflict Nth repetition of the same upon them. [1/n]

@freemo
First, apparently it's time for a bit of a lecture, to make sure we're on the same page.
We have a virus that's among the most infectious viruses we've ever known, with airborne transmission. It has been proven to damage... Well, about everything, but let's make it a bit more specific:
- cardivascular system, causing macro- and micro-clots, strokes and heart attacks. Of which there are considerably more in last couple of years, including in 25 year olds [2/n]

@freemo
- neurological system, causing neuropathy, personality changes, memory issues, concentratioon issues, Alzheimers, Parkinsons. Again, including in 25 year olds.
- immune system, decreasing our chances to defend against any and all diseases, including fighting off cells about to become cancerous
- it shortens telomers, in simplified terms increasing our chances of getting cancer

@freemo
- messes with mitochondria, affecting our body's ability to produce energy, contributing e.g. to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
- causes diabetes, of both kinds, in all ages (hey, guess what? There's way more diabetes type 1 diagnosed in teenagers and kids in the last couple of years) [4/n]

@freemo Side comment. I don't remember the specific numbers, but when speaking of public health, epidemiologists start breaking into sweat when prevalence ("how much of it to expect in population") of a condition reaches promile range, and a whole percent will have sirens blasting the windows out.
So we have this highly contagious virus, that, as you experienced yourself you can catch several times a year...And *every* infection has at least 30-50% chance of leaving you with lasting issues.[5/n]

@freemo And then there's people who already, as of 5 years ago, need to make regular visits to the doctors to, well, have their bodies not fall apart and simply stay alive. Which already, as of 5 years ago, takes some doing to get to such doctors. Now, how do you think their prospects for such visits will be affected with there suddenly being 3x, 5x, 20x the usual amount of people needing attention of the same doctors?
[6/n]

@freemo Now, let's get into some more fun details. Everyone talks about dying from COVID. And that the chances are not that big. Well, for me personally, from what I remember from tables published early on, I have better chances of coming out alive from a round of russian roulette than after catching COVID. And I'm relatively young and healthy. There are people for whom coming out alive from an infection are similar to those of playing russian roulette with a semi-automatic. [7/n]

@freemo And, to be honest, that may be the *preferable* outcome. Because another possible outcome, for me, is losing the ability to work, (hey, already single infection caused me neurological issues that didn't necessarily fully go away 18 months later) and thus losing the ability to pay 1/4th average salary for postponing complications from my other chronic condition. [8/n]

@freemo Which, besides the "fun" of already being fucked up enough to not be employable, means probably losing eyes in 3-5 years, kidneys in possibly 10, and maybe feet somewhere along the way.
[9/n]

@freemo Also, remember the pretty often visits that people with chronic conditions need to make? Now think about all those coughing, sneezing, unmasked people waiting there in the corridors.
[10/n]

@freemo All of which could be severely reduced by applying some control measures, like masking to prevent oneself from becoming a vector (both by not becoming infected, and reducing chances of spreading it to others if you are), good ventilation and filtering in spaces, and testing often to catch an asymptomatic infection.
[11/n]

@freemo And then you come in, basically acknowledge that you know all of the above, but damn, the masks are so much *hassle*, so you're just not going to bother. What exactly kind of response do you expect to that?
[12/12]