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So do we forgive her now or no?
@freemo @georgetakei We keep an eye on her and consider her as getting off with a warning this time. People need a little space to grow and learn from mistakes, but once they've used that space on a topic they need to be held to a higher standard going forward.
I thinkt hat is a fair perspective.
While I myself dont think she did anything wrong even if she did host the show. I do understand you dont agree on that and I think your reasoned approach, given you perspective, is a fair one.
@freemo @georgetakei I think if she'd crossed not one but two picket lines to put on her show that definitely would have been doing something wrong. Strikes only work when everyone stands unified. And strikes working is inherently good for society in a multitude of ways.
> I think if she'd crossed not one but two picket lines to put on her show that definitely would have been doing something wrong.
I personally disagree it would be wrong, but only because I have not been convinced that the things the strike is fighting for is justified. But that is a tangent I didnt intend to get into with this question.
> Strikes only work when everyone stands unified.
I think that is a valid and correct statement.
> And strikes working is inherently good for society in a multitude of ways.
Depends on the strike. I would hope we agree that we only want strikes to work for good causes... strikes for causes that harm society we want to be unsuccessful no?
While we disagree on if this particular strike is a good one or not I would hope we at least agree we would only want strikes to "work" when they are a morally good demand. Like if a bunch of people went on strike to protest hiring a black person at their work place... I think we can all agree we **dont** want that strike to work right?
So yea id say no, strikes should not always work, and if they did that wouldnt be good for society. We want them to work when we all agree their for a good cause and we explicitly want them to fail when they dont.
> Do you have any concrete examples of strikes being used for bad causes and having any success?
None that were large enough to make the news or have citeable sources, and that i can actually remember the name of, just the ones ive seen personally, and certainly not all of them. That said i dont exactly stay up to date on all the strikes around the world either.
That said I am sure there are plenty examples of strikers asking for unreasonable demands.
> I'm not aware of any significant or successful labor actions which have been used to increase oppression.
While I cant tell you any specific strikes, I certainly know of the general case where this happens all the time. It is a very common practice among unions, particularly labour unions, to force negotiatiosn in their favor that oppresses the non-union workers in the work place. For example when unions strike it is not uncommon to use as their demand a contractual requirement that they are only allowed to hire union members. This oppresses the right for employees to choose for themselves which union they wish to support, or form opposing unions that might fix issues the employee has with current unions. Taking away all current and future employees rights to choosing a union (or to choose not to be in one) is absolutely a very common example of strikes resulting in oppression.
> I would argue, though, that in the current world people are generally feeling disenfranchised and powerless, and that any kind of successful organized action shows people that they can stand up for themselves against the rich and powerful.
I'd say quite the opposite. People are feeling arogant and self-entitled. Anything right now that adds fuel to the fire and reinforces the bad behavior (like rioting, violence, etc) is the last thing we need. But I also think this is a really bad reason to support a strike, any strike.
@freemo @georgetakei If you consider that oppression then I don't think we have enough common ground for any meaningful conversation so we should leave it there. Have a good rest of your week.
@freemo @georgetakei Do you have any concrete examples of strikes being used for bad causes and having any success? Ideally from the last 50-100 years. I'm not aware of any significant or successful labor actions which have been used to increase oppression. I think a significant part of the reason is that labor actions are fundamentally a tool of the oppressed or weaker classes against the rich and powerful. Racism is the opposite - it's a tool of the rich and powerful against an oppressed class. It's very difficult to set up a scenario where those two opposing interests align.
I would argue, though, that in the current world people are generally feeling disenfranchised and powerless, and that any kind of successful organized action shows people that they can stand up for themselves against the rich and powerful. That can only increase democracy and social engagement. Even if you or I might find an individual demand in some industry we're not in strange or unreasonable, that's not for us to judge, that's between those workers and those companies. They have a right to some degree of democratic control of their workplace.