what i'm saying is you must be willing to do to them everything they are prepared to do to you.
otherwise, negociation is impossible.
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@icedquinn are we speaking in aggregate or as individuals?
In others words should i be willing to do to the group what 90% of the group is willing to do to me, even if that member of the group is not part of the 90%?
> did i stutter 
You didnt stutter, but you were non-specific.
Does "they" refer to a collection groups, or does "they" refer to a collection of individuals... are you talking about treating they collectively as an aggegrate, or they as a set of individuals... are you applying this test to the whole or the part?
That’s the basic principal of self-defense. A lot of people are going to learn how important that is way too late as this continues.
On an individual level I agree, if they are willing to kill you but you arent willing to kill them, you will be the one to suffer..
But applying this to groups in aggregate, or in general applying the logical fallacy that a part of the group has the same properties as the group, is dangerous at best.
It certainly didnt... but if your response to that is to nuke all of russia and being ok killing the people who are even against the war, and even the freedom fighters who are russian but opposing it... that would be wrong morally, and not something I would support.
Yes, but i would hope that we would hit strategic military targets and when possible avoid civilians... there may be collateral damage sure, but my point is we should treat every situation with nuance and not just reflect our enemies morality unless we have to to survive, and maybe not even then depending on your morality
It’s all moot anyway as it seems Russia is gearing up for a land strike with all the bridges they took out on the border recently. Likely a slow advance of artillery, but surprises are fun.
That’s called surrender. That said that’s what will happen in Ukraine unless NATO nukes first, which I’d personally rather see NATO collapse as it’s a force of evil just for money laundering; and Ukraine is ran by a tyrant backed by neo-nazis anyway. You can’t hate them both.
Seriously NATO won’t enforce article 5, and everyone knows it.
I for one would be happy to hang all the Ukrainians that shelled their own people for years; while doing a military build-up over a decade to overthrow Russia after they were taken in a color revolution themselves. Not a friend of Nuland.
I’m just saying at some point people have to bite the bullet and accept you have to fight for your own freedom. Your former colony master will eventually turn on you, or at best turn in-different to you. You can take that in a US or Ukraine context.
Groups, huh? Well, I’m sure if the jews were paying attention and stayed armed things would have been different for them. Depends if you want to die in a mass grave or protecting your own.
You can’t trust the state to save you when the state wants you dead.
if they are willing to burn your house, kill your dog and steal your car, and you surrender immediately, you can never hold a meaningful protest. it just teaches them to send cops and you'll fold.
if they're willing to kill you, and you aren't willing to kill them, don't even bother. (or resort to subterfuge but that's a different conversation