I see many people here saying that #Israel is being too heavy-handed in their approach to fighting #Hamas, as they cannot kill the terrorists without also killing the citizens in #Palestine that they are using as human shields.
To them I posit a question: how would you propose that #Israel defeat #Hamas? Is there an alternative way to beat these terrorists that I’ve just not seeing?
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@realcaseyrollins Israel has already commited mass genocide, stolen a nation from its people who were already there, and commited long-term acts of terrorism on the palestinians for multiple generations now....
They should start by apologizing and giving the land back to the people who were there first, that would be a nice start.
Its not simply "stealing land".. its the countless number of people that were killed and suffered as a result... They stole their land, piled them up in ghetos, turned off their water and electricity, and slowly let them die in their own feces in the blistering heat... they have done this for nearly 100 years...
Israel has been a terrorist to the palestinians for 100 years... and the palestinians (who were living there for countless generations) have acted as terrorists in return.. Doesnt justify what they did, but also doesnt erase the far worse that Israel has done to them.
Its not simply “stealing land”.. its the countless number of people that were killed and suffered as a result… They stole their land, piled them up in ghetos, turned off their water and electricity, and slowly let them die in their own feces in the blistering heat… they have done this for nearly 100 years…
Israel has been a terrorist to the palestinians for 100 years… and the palestinians (who were living there for countless generations) have acted as terrorists in return.. Doesnt justify what they did, but also doesnt erase the far worse that Israel has done to them.
I’m not sure about the veracity of all of those claims, I will need to research them.
What do you think about #Hamas? Do you think they should be stopped in any way?
@realcaseyrollins Not unilaterally... You have two nations behaving in ways that are unaccetable.. one is commiting genocide of an entire people and taking their land from them... the other are punching back in similarly dirty ways but has very little man power to carry it out...
To unilaterally do something about hamas, the little terrorist, while doing nothing about Israel, the big terrorist, would be quit unjust. I am all for stopping the hamas, but so long as that goes hand in hand with kicking the occupying force (Israel) off of Palestine's land, and freeing the palestinian people so they can leave their walled territories and reclaim their homes.
@freemo Presuming that what you say about #Israel’s behavior is true, I agree with your conclusion. However, unfortunately, from what I see, the majority of citizens in #Israel hate the citizens of #Palestine and vice versa, so peace without a victory in the conflict to me seems unlikely, so I want one side to win as quickly as possible so that there can be peace. From there, we can certainly talk about who owns what land.
@realcaseyrollins If one side needs to win, then it should be palestine, since they are the ones who were there. So if its one side or the other then 100% should be palestine who is allowed to win.
@freemo I’d posit that the Jews were there long before (but to be fair, again I need to do more research). I’m rooting for #Israel here but I’d certainly take #Palestine winning over the present state of things.
@realcaseyrollins im not talking about antient history.. im talking basic on the current generation and anyone they were alive to remember (so the last 3 generations or so)... Who was there first 2000 years ago doesnt matter, what matters is who was born there out of who is alive today.
@realcaseyrollins Yea in my mind this is just a general rule.. the people born on a land have a right to be citizens of that land.. its simple, it works.
@freemo See my current, limited understanding of the situation is that the Jews had this land stolen from them, others moved in and formed #Palestine, and someone (the #UN I think) forced their way in to recreate #Israel and give the Jews their land back. Not sure if that lines up with your understanding, but the solution to who should have what land seems far more complex than how to end the violence, to me.
@realcaseyrollins Sounds like you have the general facts but the timeline is all mixed up...
The palestinians were there for some time, they out numbered jews by 10:1.. then at the end of WWII the UN decided to give the Jews who were displaced from the war a home in israel, so the UN decided to take the land away from the native people living there and give it to the jews instead. The Palestinians have been fighting against that...
The people who argue the jews were there first are talking 2000 years ago.. jews have not been the majority population in israel for thousands of years until they invaded and took it by force after WWII. Most palestinians were living there for dozens of generations at least.
@icedquinn @freemo Just doesn’t seem feasible or wise to try divying up the land during active war and conflict, to me
Sure but the billion dollars we give them comes with the condition that they gotta buy all their christian bibles from us... so it practically pays for itself :)
@icedquinn @freemo Now this I agree with
Its a USA problem because we are the ones who let it get this far to begin with.. If we hadnt given Israel all the money to commit genocide thent he palestinians might have had a fighting chance
people just say because hitler or because greatest ally, but like
all we do is give them shit and apologize for their gaffes, what does the USA actually get in exchange for putting up with their shit constantly
@icedquinn @freemo “muh Christian nation” + oil, probably
Whats israel have to do with christianity? Their jews not christians, and might I remind you, jews who wanted to make it illegal in their country to be christian.
i think people were scared to start shit in general but now that the USA is just flagging weakness everywhere ... might as well
@icedquinn @freemo It’s sad, really. And at this point I don’t see a way for conflict to end without further escalations. Ain’t nobody willing to put their arms down anytime soon over there.
@icedquinn @freemo I might not understand vassal stated but it sounds like you’re arguing for colonization, which I’m not a fan of
On that I agree, whe shouldnt be supporting israel, and shouldnt have int he past... the issue for me is we cant just stop now cause we caused it to get this bad.. so we in it now its of our making.
@icedquinn @freemo Me either. I just generally like the idea of a state of #Israel existing because I am a #Christian. Doesn’t mean that the #USA needs to support them.
What int he world would the state of israel have to do with christianity? The natives who lived there took good care of the holy city for thousands of years.. wasnt until israel showed up and started taking everything away there were problems.
@freemo @icedquinn Christians have always had a soft spot for Jews, even though they hate us lol
why do american christians mutilate penises? christ didn't tell you to do it.
How else would our kids know who is in charge if we dont slice off a little nip of their dick on the first day to set the precedence?
Thats the excuse, but it doesnt fit as there isnt good medical evidence for it
That may be, but there is no logical reason for it as a christian. If anything you should be buddy buddy with the Muslims, they beleive everything in christianity is true (even jesus). They are closer to christians than jews ideologically.
If anything you should be buddy buddy with the Muslims, they beleive everything in christianity is true (even jesus)
Oh heck no, you’re not just off the reservation with that take, you’re off the face of the planet 😂
That said I think there’s a perspective of, the Jewish people are people that God has loved and preserved for so long, so we should care about them too.
> Oh heck no, you’re not just off the reservation with that take, you’re off the face of the planet 😂
How ya figure... just look at the comparison...
Muslims beleive everything int he new testament is true and is part of their own holy books.. jews not so much.
They beleive jesus was real and came to earth and spoke the word of god... jews dont
Were you aware the christian new testament was one of the Muslim holy texts? Were you aware they worshipped jesus and beleive jesus spoke the word of god?
Were you aware the christian new testament was one of the Muslim holy texts? Were you aware they worshipped jesus and beleive jesus spoke the word of god?
They don’t believe that Jesus is God though. That’s the whole point of everything that He did on earth tho, and why the Jews killed Him in the first place. A Muslim would refute this.
Correct, the musslims do not beleive jesus was god, only a prophet for god... the jews however beleive he wasnt even that much, they think he was just a crazy old coot with a god complex... so which of the two are more similar to you, the one who thinks jesus was sent by god and speaks for god.. or the people who think jesus was a crazy person?
@freemo @icedquinn They both are equally off when it comes to Jesus, but I’d say that Muslims are closer. Still, when it comes to doctrine, not only do their own texts contradict each other, but much of Islamic ethics are incompatible with #Christian ethics
That may be a lack of understanding on your part... They agree with all the christian ethics, and I cant think of one that is in disagreement at all.. do you have an example? In fact they explicitly agree with all the ethics stated int he new testament that I know of.
whats the goal here
just keep maximizing the bankrupcy of the USA?
to actually stop ongoing violence?
etc
@freemo @icedquinn I mean didn’t Mohammed have sex with goats and a child bride? That’s not in line with #Christian ethics.
I think there’s stuff in regards to the #Jihad, which is also against #Christian ethics (although ironically Christians themselves used similar ethics during the #Crusades)
@icedquinn @freemo @realcaseyrollins there are acts that we the West consider so wrong and abhorrent that even if done by a victim of unwarranted aggression, who had every right to fight a war and receive our aid, put whoever did them in the wrong and strip them of any rights granted by various civillized warfare conventions. They are called war crimes. One of them is purposefully attacking civilians.
@icedquinn @freemo @realcaseyrollins
In other words, ever since Hamas started killing civilians on purpose, we can just stop caring about the land Israel took from them.
Or we could try to understand the conflict and why the Palestinians felt like joining Hamas and sacrificing their lives to kill Israeli people. And we'll find reasons and causes. But not justifications.
both parties have been utter shitheels to each other for decades (israel shot unarmed civilians to stop them from bringing medicine to palestine years ago and lied to the US/UK about it while it was literally on satcom)
@icedquinn @freemo @realcaseyrollins "we"?
You and I - the role of a critical observer, discussing various aspects of the situation to learn more about the world, morality, and ourselves.
My country? Evacuate all its citizens from there and don't get involved.
Your country? No idea.
@galena @icedquinn @freemo @realcaseyrollins I mean, not based on what Israel is doing now (attacking military targets with the side effect of killing civilians), but if they purposefully shot civilians in previous incidents then yeah
@icedquinn @galena @freemo @realcaseyrollins Hatred is an emotion.
IMO we can't condemn people for emotions, only for their actions.
But if we want a solution then yeah understanding the mutual hatred is important.
@freemo I’m not here to talk about the territorial dispute, which I haven’t made my mind up on. Just the terrorism.
I don’t think the stealing of land justifies rape and murder, but that’s just me.