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Im watching cop interaction videos and one thing i heard a few cops say now to people who refused to answer questions or give them a hard time.. they ask "Why do you hate cops so much?".... no no no buddy, these people dont hate you, they are **scared** of you, big difference. People just dont tend to like people they are scared of, but that is secondary!
@freemo Kinda scary how you consider me wrong on so many things, then you say such simple, yet useful truth. Reality is confusing, don't you agree?
@admitsWrongIfProven you are probably just noticing i am more direct about things i disagree. It isnt that i find you more wrong than anyone else might. Im just more likely to tell you.
@freemo That is a good point, another one for the wonder i have.
I generally see you as someone who wants to be kind, but i also see the "people should work for their keep", which i cannot reconcile with the rest.
After all, i am convinced people generally want to be useful. So pushing is not the direction that would help.
Some disconnect exists, and i cannot put my finger on what it is.
@admitsWrongIfProven No I dont think people should work for their keep. I can think of plenty of examples (like inheretance) where they don't and I'm ok with it.
What I think is that people shouldnt be forced to let you steal from them so they dont have to work for their keep (communism for exmaple)
@freemo Wait, stealing by random luck is good? I need a new random luck generator installed.
@admitsWrongIfProven Inheretance isnt stealing, the person wanted you to have it. Taxes are stealing in the sense that you are taking money against someones will to get it to someoneone else.
That said I''m actually not against taxes, but only when it benefits the greater good (and base line welfare that keeps people froms starving does that)
@admitsWrongIfProven what do you think of this argument?
I think there is some truth to it. True by hyperbolic and lacking some nuance, but true enough to be a discussion point.
Civil laws for example, no matter how much you refuse to follow such laws, will ever wind you up in jail or (Assuming you dont have a corrupt cop) a death threat. The only way we could make this assertion is if we consider loosing all your money the same as a death sentance, which also has some truth to it, but is a stretch.
But for criminal laws, yea, at the end you either need to coorperate with the law or the consequences of breaking the law, or escalate the matter to the point of violence or jail time, and if you resist jail time by executing "self-defense" when they try to take you then you will likely end up dead.
So while I do get the point and admit to the principle having elements of truth, to say such a think is highly hyperbolic and lacking a complete picture.
Also,
>Civil laws for example, no matter how much you refuse to follow such laws, will ever wind you up in jail or (Assuming you don't have a corrupt cop) a death threat.
What if you refuse to give them your money?
@Hyolobrika @freemo Not paying taxes in germany is more complicated.
Most taxes are deducted automatically. Stores collect added value tax, income taxes are deducted from wages. You can get some back, so you could cheat by declaring fraudulent returns, but if you do nothing, the tax is payed.
It would be more relevant on a company level, employing someone without declaring - but at that point, we're at state vs. company, not state vs. individual.
> Not paying taxes in germany is more complicated.
>
> Most taxes are deducted automatically. Stores collect added value tax, income taxes are deducted from wages. You can get some back, so you could cheat by declaring fraudulent returns, but if you do nothing, the tax is payed.
In this regard the USA and germany are the same, income and sales tax and everything else happens at the point you receive it. So your ability to simply not pay taxes is fairly limited. There are a few ways you can do it (these will result in lawsuits fromt he IRS but jailtime only in situations where you outright lie or something illegal).
So one way is if your full time if you list more deductions than you actually will have, then dont pay the difference at the end of year on income.
The other way is to work as a contractor, in whcih case you pay taxes at the end of the year and not when you are paid.
@freemo @Hyolobrika Oh, i was under the assumption that you had to declare your taxes and would be punished (financially or with jail if you cannot pay) if you did not declare anything.
So that is wrong, you can just not do anything and the default tax is payed/deducted in the US?
> Oh, i was under the assumption that you had to declare your taxes and would be punished (financially or with jail if you cannot pay) if you did not declare anything.
This is mostly correct except you have to remove the "or with jail" part, remove that and its correct.
> So that is wrong, you can just not do anything and the default tax is payed/deducted in the US?
If you do nothing then the IRS will call you in for an audit and demand you pay and give you a chance to argue the amount owed. There will be a very hefty penalty of interest for back taxes owed you didnt file (As they dont tend to come after you until youve done it for a few years). If you refuse to cooperate the IRS will do their best to estimate the value for you and just forcable deduct from your account. But it wont be a fair amount it willb e a HUGE amount over what you would have paid if you did it the right way. Both that they overestimate by a huge margin, and because there are huge financial penalties.
You are only safe from jail time, not from financial penalties.
In practice if you dont pay your taxes you will probably wind up paying thema t something like 5x what you owed.
@freemo @Hyolobrika In germany you just pay a bit more than what you owe, but the usual deductions for office workers are negligable. Would be way different if you have huge expenses, but those are a minority, like self employed people that work with machinery and materials, not information.
The IRS used to have a policy where they only pursued large debts (when taxes owed were above 500K). From what people have told me they now persue people at all levels of income.
@freemo @Hyolobrika Heh, tax collection priorities would be a prime example of a gauge for the gouvernments goals congruence with peoples needs.
If lots of small debts are pursued, the expected return would be small - even if the sum is great, it is a lot of effort, negating this.
@freemo @Hyolobrika Hmm, so the german tax system is more convenient.
I would not have thought i would ever write this sentence. You may have the plus of no jail time, but you do have consequences for inaction we do not have.