ULTIMATUMS: If there is an ultimatum without discussion you know it's a unwise / abusive process that needs to be improved since it misses the humanisation or discussion of what is important to people.
Even with ultimatums the reality still exists that we all can't just cut people off or never see them again or expect them not to have feeling, so might as well finish it / gracefully / take the experience together / accept it is how it is
(all without trying to leverage each other or expect only 2 people to have all the answers.)
Asking for more time and proper space also helps BUT if you're quite sure and think it will risk forgetting facts and feelings or gossip will arise don't delay more than a day.
@freeschool But after longer consideration, there *are* situations where an ultimatum could work as an unilateral declaration of an hard line that the other should not cross again. But only if this hard line wasn't communicated beforehand/ is common sense or the law and the behaviour isn't unforgivable - then I wouldn't put it as an ultimatum (fi "if you hit me again then I leave you") but go straight away, no second/third chances.
But all in all, an ultimatum isn't part of a [2
@freeschool functioning relationship imo. The fact that it is used shows that the relationship is seriously damaged or was not healthy in the first place, and the communication skills of both are flawed. It don't work, either - problems rarely can be solved with pressure, despite its widely usage.
But it is true that there are hard limits that aren't communicated since they seem obvious for one partner and they forgot that no two people are the same.
Sorry if you meant another context..
@blueplanetslittlehelper
The context is good.
I wrote a lot in reply, but before adding it here I am seeking permission or indication you would like a lot more on this?
(it's not actually hugely important or anything you might not know, unless you'd like to explore those casual sub-points and sub-considerations that I think every day people probably need to go through to realise things)
I could also simply consider what you wrote as good also and be totally happy with that and move on nicely :)
@freeschool It was an interesting topic and food for thought, and it could be discussed further at length, but I would like to stop here, since, as I mentioned, I really am not on mastodon that much anymore (at least at the moment). Sorry.
@blueplanetslittlehelper
[updated this reply]
Great, no worries,,, Ah yes I see what you wrote before about state of the world and general feelings about that. No need repeat. Thank you.
Also happy to audio talk privately (although I can see this is possibly further no help but just saying as I offer that to everyone and didn't mention it)
Example:
https://meet.jit.si/chataboutit
(private / non-invasive technology for audio listening and speaking only)
@freeschool Thank you.
I know jitsi and can't understand why everyone here uses Teams, Zoom or other data abusers instead...
@freeschool And yes, I am resigned now (and "mütend", a new German artificial word that mixes müde= tired and wütend= angry) with many ppl here and in RL and look, at most, once a week if there did someone wrote something to me or about a specific topic. And I use the Nina instance here with a bell that sends warning messages about floods, storms etc. Although, since a terrible flood here in Germany where the ppl didn't get a warning at the right time, they send too many warnings imo 🤷
@blueplanetslittlehelper
Thanks for letting me know... I appreciate it. Whenever you'd like to resume I'm here but I admit it can be more of the same... and actually like I was going to write about ultimatum and communication, it seems we (humans) are going to going to have to go through all of it but somehow more progressive and dare I say fun... I've personally successfully flipped anger and disappointment (probably from playing chess too long!) but from other ways.
I liked hearing about the German word or phrase and didn't even know about the floods! (again a benefit in cross-talking that I enjoy)
For now I wish for more peace and glad you know about Jitsi
(it's been a life saver / big improvement to text only as some people don't realise how good / bad / effected people are inside this medium and limited construct! Voice is like so much easier and more effective for some things...). Thanks again.
@freeschool At first, I wanted to write that an ultimatum has no place in any real relationship since it is an unilateral declaration/ blackmail to make the other do what you want. Imo, even if it comes at the end of an lengthy process to try to salvage the situation/ change the behaviour of the other in other ways, this consequence should be communicated before as an possible endpoint of this process, not after it failed (again). How should an ultimatum work if this failed before? [1