@sofia @luna @disco_coop ASKING FOR SOMETHING IN RETURN FOR WORK? (BUT NOT MONEY)

AND MAYBE SOME OTHER WAY?
(IF WE'RE ALLOWED TO TRY)

In similar debates *I think* all of us want for living and existing
BUT you're taking on much more than you understand *once you enter talking about money* and entering money into the equation is A BIG DIFFERENCE than 'return' to those who work for others,...

I believe anyway we do work and can *reduce* it much less (evident by the profit that is swallowed and even half could have gone to saving the next humans from working shitty job / healthcare) + money also involves other things connected to money itself run by the same for-self-profit government(s) who have all perfected the art of screwing or taxing to hell people (yes it's like a circular things when money by the bank and government AND is mostly a tool for taxing people and controlled interaction / transaction)... that was and is the main usage... if you think it's to keep you alive THINK again back to primitive days! You are there to make more wealth else worthless to any empire!

Anyway long list of things we need not debate but this notion of totally involving more people in between us and MORE THAN YOU THINK is the main point.

Banks ARE political for example
- they do choose who to give loans to including who NOT TO GIVE LOANS TO
- they are predatory / hungry to create more debt
- Debt is almost like a made up magic of 'pay me whatever I say' like a king or any bully would to stand your presence... it is not for preservation or any kind of 'sacred' human value... it's still in the area of "money or your life (health)" with softer pay-gates in between (before it was knock on door and baton over you head if you didn't pay).

OK OK THIS IS THE MAIN POINT:

Disassembling money gets us past arguing about money itself and SHOWS US THE PARTS UNDERNEATH in which we all agree or wish for as humans and can't escape... which could be:

- service to others
(none of us want to be along and like to give / be appreciated

- being fed

- having shelter

- respect

- self-determination

[again cut short this list to move on, remembering if we had the above WE WOULD NEED NEAR-0 / MUCH LESS MONEY!]

SO IN THAT IT'S A SELF-MADE PAY-SYSTEM like when kids say to each other - you have to pay me to walk past here (as simple as that, and yes we could build without this kind of 'payment system')... Paying mixes the paying of bullies (extortion, gang-like grouping) and also the material or labour payment...

MONEY IS THE MIX WHICH MAKES IT ALL GO WRONG AND EVEN TAKE ADVANTAGE AS WE SEE WITH FOOD, MEDICAL CARE, EVERYTHING BEING ROTTED OUT TO PAY FOR THE MAGIC DEBT CREATED BY BANK AND INTEREST ADDED ON TOP (like a fucked up game of you still have to pay me forever even if it's paying 100x more for this buildings cost and purely for greed until I die and my son takes over collecting from you)
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So once you see people say "yes" to money and think "we need it" BECAUSE OF THE COMPONENT PARTS then it's for us to think how to solve those parts

BUT (HERE'S THE CATCH)

THE EXISTING GAME HAS LEGAL CONDITIONS THAT WON'T LET YOU DO A LOT OF GOOD, HAS GUNS TO BACK ENFORCES WHO ARE 'JUST DOING THEIR JOB' AND HAVE NEAR-0 IDEAL OF ALL THE POLITICS (it would take years of study so that's how I judge that) and so quite ignorant muscle men or armed people are eventually called... or just you get penalty tickets for going 'against' the books of law incremented like rolling punched over the years to make sure nothing good survives but the will of government profit programs.

It's for the above, and you can see how an umbrella over that wouldn't matter to some people you listed MORE bad things - even if you said once a year someone shits on your doorstep BUT YOU GET TO LIVE... they would still do it / go along with this way...

...they might explain there's no other way and couldn't imagine the incremental force needed to get to where we are is similar to what could have been enforced for good to stay instead!

PEOPLE ARE ALSO IRONICALLY RIGHT - yes people are forced and "no other way literally" apart from the slow progress back to just "less profit" (not even 0, just not reaping people's energy so fast / raping them and leaving them to go home BROKEN)

OF COURSE with the will and effort in the same way we could lean things back the right way (at the least).... we're just not allowed THAT is the problem (we also jump rail tracks into pumping money and not realising that we are pumping debt at the same time!)

For those things that are priority to people, the 1st list is priority and the 2nd list is a lot less of a problem - for some people even the suffering of others is ok - someone has to pay in this mentality (in money or physically for their resources, or furthering control / political realms etc).
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IT WOULDN'T MATTER IF YOU SAID
- banks are private companies and regularly are allowed to rob the public honey pot (2008 banks said "we have no money" and government allowed taking from PUBLIC tax pots - oh well still people lived right?
But do think again that money = energy of people so they stole that like robbing honey from bees and expecting them to only get more - that's a type of violence...
When saying "money" it's "legalised robbery" and ok if it's normalise or done behind people's back.

When saying money is ok or neutral it's like saying banks are neutral, they are not supporting bad things... not increasing debt unnecessarily

- also government and banks do deals like 2 supermarket would do deals to be able to catch all the fish and benefit from doing near-0 work (the public does all the work AND pays for bad control / oppression without any power other than to pay for new people to do the same)

- list of scandals, crisis, all of which even if half were true would be a joke list on humanity and more of the same clever-primitive robbing and cloaking what we knew/know historically as bad handlers / responsible people / corporate criminals... whatever, almost any sector... just for profit and literally sucking life out of it

AT THE END...
We still need to come up with how we would run it now where global and boosted our number 300% in only 80ish years...
And even from scratch how do we do things as in playing an Age of Empires game, but without the force and wars on people...

SURELY PEOPLE WOULD WORK AND WANT TO PROVIDE FOR EACH OTHER MOSTLY?
(OR COULD BE MADE TO SEE ALL THE OTHER WAYS END UP IN ATTRITION / EVENTUAL SELF-DAMAGE AGAIN)

There is a difference between THE WILL OF BANKS AND GOVERNMENT vs. Allowing people to fix systems and do better... I DON'T BELIEVE BANKS OR THOSE IN POWER HAVE THE SLIGHTEST INTENTION TO REDUCE THEIR POWER OR EVEN ELIMINATE THEMSELVES FROM POWER IF IT EQUALISED OTHERS WITH A BETTER PLAN THAT KNOCKING EACH OTHER OVER THE HEAD (PHYSICALLY OR FINANCIALLY)

NOT BEING ABLE TO START A NEW SYSTEM OR OPEN DEBATE ABOUT IT IS ONE OF THE MAJOR PROBLEMS.
AND WHAT TO DO WHEN THOSE GETTING PAID DON'T CARE OR CARE MORE ABOUT THEIR OWN EXISTENCE NOW ALL THE SYSTEM IS BASED OFF THAT WAY WHERE IF YOU DON'T DO OR DON'T FOLLOW YOU START TO DIE / CAN'T PAY FOR STUFF / LIFE !?