My generation had The Bomb. I grew up in a targeted industrial city and had a map on my bedroom wall of the concentric circles of he various levels of destruction - until MIRVs made that obsolete.
Those days may yet return, but bioweapons, like cyberwarfare, are so much more stealthy, not to mention potentially infinitely more granular using genetic targeting (you destabilize a nation by targeting one ethnic faction while suggesting another was the perp, then take control of what remains).
All of which is to say that, if you have complaints now, perhaps you're being too hasty.
So what looks bright in your future, fellow kids?
Those days may yet return, but bioweapons, like cyberwarfare, are so much more stealthy, not to mention potentially infinitely more granular using genetic targeting (you destabilize a nation by targeting one ethnic faction while suggesting another was the perp, then take control of what remains).
All of which is to say that, if you have complaints now, perhaps you're being too hasty.
So what looks bright in your future, fellow kids?
@iskandrian
the technology to isolate into neo-feudal keeps with far more creature comforts than previously possible.
the technology to isolate into neo-feudal keeps with far more creature comforts than previously possible.
@dubh
It is reassuring that you will be keeping the Tier 1 backbones and the technology supply chains up and running, not to mention keeping the Internet itself open and free.
It is reassuring that you will be keeping the Tier 1 backbones and the technology supply chains up and running, not to mention keeping the Internet itself open and free.
@iskandrian
I mean, I haven't been working back to chips and os for no reason, but I'm also really thinking more of reinforced concrete, air conditioning, and power generation. I don't have too much hope for these clearnets and I've said so for a long while as well -- I was even down on fedi, despite hosting instances, just because it's tied to TLDs which I think are doomed.
I mean, I haven't been working back to chips and os for no reason, but I'm also really thinking more of reinforced concrete, air conditioning, and power generation. I don't have too much hope for these clearnets and I've said so for a long while as well -- I was even down on fedi, despite hosting instances, just because it's tied to TLDs which I think are doomed.
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@dubh @iskandrian I've been thinking about this recently but not much technical know-how, any good literature to brush up?
@skells @iskandrian
i would read up on i2p, yggdrasil, and zeronet -- but i am very much not an expert with computers, just a hobbyist and there are much better people to ask.
i would read up on i2p, yggdrasil, and zeronet -- but i am very much not an expert with computers, just a hobbyist and there are much better people to ask.
@dubh @iskandrian couple keywords to search, all i need. thanks
@skells @iskandrian
> ambiguous 'this'
I followed Ben Eater's 6502 build, he covers everything very nicely all the way up to usb interfaces. EEVBlog was very useful as well. If you annoy @p he is known to throw book pdfs at you, many of which I've found useful.
> ambiguous 'this'
I followed Ben Eater's 6502 build, he covers everything very nicely all the way up to usb interfaces. EEVBlog was very useful as well. If you annoy @p he is known to throw book pdfs at you, many of which I've found useful.
@dubh @skells @iskandrian I have so many PDFs and am delighted to throw them in all directions at any time, if there's a topic. Absent a topic, I usually throw out some copies of PoC||GTFO, full of great shit, or Nemo's exposition of the Plan 9 kernel, but since I always do that, here's Lion's commentary on the Unix source code from 1977, which ended up banned for a long time on copyright grounds, but was so good it survived on Xerox machine piracy until some time in the 00s, when it was unbanned.
lion-s_commentary_on_unix.pdf
lion-s_commentary_on_unix.pdf
@p@freespeechextremist.com @dubh@collapsitarian.io @skells@qoto.org @iskandrian@freespeechextremist.com are your PDFs up in an ipfs block by chance?
@sevvie @skells @iskandrian @dubh Many of them, although at present some dumb local network shit has compelled me to temporarily halt use of IPFS. A big bucket of them are pinned to another IPFS node, but I cannot remember which hash that was and I don't see it searching my posts. I did find the old 
search leaks ( QmbKBv46EaWohtjXNqsG2BDuCT8R58wTF6c6juPwrvz6eM ), a gun ( QmdnYSiqbKQPtf9B2HieS3dkrrzZrszhF9NqQneFMd36yn ), PoC||GTFO 00-16 ( QmaduEdb8e6xySN6SVQBHMohCuSUH53W3o2fKZ8beqTH3Q ), a dump of the C2 wiki ( QmUE36gm9p2ALzT9JcJv2fcSW6ojeXhWvrMacQftu4T6Qz ), half a gig of SNES ROMs ( QmRAmzSrEefjrvw5uET5Vp4xksSvTwv6BTLxDs2PJ2L1Dc ), Vagrant Story ( QmaGe39VXq45opXvuTeqU9439Crf32Fi4zvPLkZq4gCqSF ), and :sicp: ( QmeE8b2SYVjPUBqgBhK5He9QT5xQmnMpSQz2hvtNJF92Wr ).
search leaks ( QmbKBv46EaWohtjXNqsG2BDuCT8R58wTF6c6juPwrvz6eM ), a gun ( QmdnYSiqbKQPtf9B2HieS3dkrrzZrszhF9NqQneFMd36yn ), PoC||GTFO 00-16 ( QmaduEdb8e6xySN6SVQBHMohCuSUH53W3o2fKZ8beqTH3Q ), a dump of the C2 wiki ( QmUE36gm9p2ALzT9JcJv2fcSW6ojeXhWvrMacQftu4T6Qz ), half a gig of SNES ROMs ( QmRAmzSrEefjrvw5uET5Vp4xksSvTwv6BTLxDs2PJ2L1Dc ), Vagrant Story ( QmaGe39VXq45opXvuTeqU9439Crf32Fi4zvPLkZq4gCqSF ), and :sicp: ( QmeE8b2SYVjPUBqgBhK5He9QT5xQmnMpSQz2hvtNJF92Wr ).
@sevvie @dubh @iskandrian @skells I forgot the attachment and the addendum about how nice gping is. It is the sort of utility that makes me wonder why we it isn't widely replicated. (Although in the case of ping, POSIX requires *root* for ICMP echo.)
@dubh @iskandrian @sevvie @skells ...I forgot the attachment in the post about how I forgot the attachment.
pingz.png
pingz.png
@Moon @dubh @iskandrian @sevvie @skells
"X is the biggest program I've ever seen that doesn't do anything for you."
I don't think there is one; X is really large (much larger than when Ken made that remark) and I can't think of a reason anyone would undertake the effort. Plan 9 intentionally breaks compatibility with old Unix on the grounds that Unix needed a reboot, X is not super popular around those parts, and the main features are already transparent in Plan 9 (e.g., an interface to a bitmapped display/keyboard/mouse, network-transparent local display of remote programs, etc. ...But while X doesn't know how to forward audio, this is trivial and Plan 9 does it by default.). So the only benefit is that you could run X programs, I don't know what you wanna run.
I *think* (don't quote me on this) the browsers people run through linuxemu use an emulated or ported tinyx/kdrive. I seem to recall they emulate an X server instead of doing Wine-but-for-X11. Failing that, the network is the computer: you can just run Xvnc on another machine and then use vncv ( http://man.cat-v.org/9front/1/vnc ) to talk to it.
(The following is not really directed at you specifically, this was an innocuous question, the just a thought that occurs when people ask "Does Plan 9 have WordPerfect?" or "Does Plan 9 have an App Store?" or "Does Plan 9 have AOL?")
One of the complaints residents tend to levy against recent arrivals to their small towns or what-have-you is that people have come because they like the new place or become the old place became intolerable, but when they arrive in the new place, they want it to work like the place they left. I believe Texans are complaining about Californians doing this recently. 90% of anything a New Yorker says for their first year after arriving in Los Angeles is a complaint that Los Angeles is not like New York.
Like the disappointment you are going to feel if you come to Los Angeles from New York and you expect a lot of Italian restaurants and kebab guys and you ignore the burritos and pastrami burgers and danger dogs, you'll have a bad time with Plan 9 if you mainly try to do $current_year Unix things instead of doing Plan 9 things. The big difference between changing cities and executing different code on a computer is that you can use a Plan 9 machine and a Linux machine at the same time using drawterm/VNC/ssh from a Linux system or ssh/VNC from a Plan 9 system to connect a Linux machine, or exporting a filesystem with control files from Plan 9, mounting it on Linux, then writing a couple of CGI scripts to expose it to your phone. One of the Big Ideas in Plan 9 is decoupling resources from individual machines, it was designed for heterogeneous networks.
Have a look at Nemo's genius Octopus system, for example. He built it on top of Inferno (which has, as one of its Big Ideas, that what Plan 9 did can also be done in userspace):
2006--building_the_octopus.pdf
2006--give_me_back_my_personal_mainframe.pdf
2007--distributed_smart_spaces.pdf
2007--octopus_as_middleware.pdf
2007--styx_batching_for_high_latency.pdf
2007--towards_persistent_distributed_interfaces.pdf
2007--ui_in_octopus.pdf
2008--octopus_user_manual_2nd_ed.pdf
2008--using_the_octopus.pdf
2009--batching_design_pattern.pdf
2010--upperware_resources.pdf
2011--improving_styx_high_latency.pdf
2012--octopus_upperware_based_system.ps
2012--personal_pervasive_environments.pdf
belt.pdf
"X is the biggest program I've ever seen that doesn't do anything for you."
I don't think there is one; X is really large (much larger than when Ken made that remark) and I can't think of a reason anyone would undertake the effort. Plan 9 intentionally breaks compatibility with old Unix on the grounds that Unix needed a reboot, X is not super popular around those parts, and the main features are already transparent in Plan 9 (e.g., an interface to a bitmapped display/keyboard/mouse, network-transparent local display of remote programs, etc. ...But while X doesn't know how to forward audio, this is trivial and Plan 9 does it by default.). So the only benefit is that you could run X programs, I don't know what you wanna run.
I *think* (don't quote me on this) the browsers people run through linuxemu use an emulated or ported tinyx/kdrive. I seem to recall they emulate an X server instead of doing Wine-but-for-X11. Failing that, the network is the computer: you can just run Xvnc on another machine and then use vncv ( http://man.cat-v.org/9front/1/vnc ) to talk to it.
(The following is not really directed at you specifically, this was an innocuous question, the just a thought that occurs when people ask "Does Plan 9 have WordPerfect?" or "Does Plan 9 have an App Store?" or "Does Plan 9 have AOL?")
One of the complaints residents tend to levy against recent arrivals to their small towns or what-have-you is that people have come because they like the new place or become the old place became intolerable, but when they arrive in the new place, they want it to work like the place they left. I believe Texans are complaining about Californians doing this recently. 90% of anything a New Yorker says for their first year after arriving in Los Angeles is a complaint that Los Angeles is not like New York.
Like the disappointment you are going to feel if you come to Los Angeles from New York and you expect a lot of Italian restaurants and kebab guys and you ignore the burritos and pastrami burgers and danger dogs, you'll have a bad time with Plan 9 if you mainly try to do $current_year Unix things instead of doing Plan 9 things. The big difference between changing cities and executing different code on a computer is that you can use a Plan 9 machine and a Linux machine at the same time using drawterm/VNC/ssh from a Linux system or ssh/VNC from a Plan 9 system to connect a Linux machine, or exporting a filesystem with control files from Plan 9, mounting it on Linux, then writing a couple of CGI scripts to expose it to your phone. One of the Big Ideas in Plan 9 is decoupling resources from individual machines, it was designed for heterogeneous networks.
Have a look at Nemo's genius Octopus system, for example. He built it on top of Inferno (which has, as one of its Big Ideas, that what Plan 9 did can also be done in userspace):
2006--building_the_octopus.pdf
2006--give_me_back_my_personal_mainframe.pdf
2007--distributed_smart_spaces.pdf
2007--octopus_as_middleware.pdf
2007--styx_batching_for_high_latency.pdf
2007--towards_persistent_distributed_interfaces.pdf
2007--ui_in_octopus.pdf
2008--octopus_user_manual_2nd_ed.pdf
2008--using_the_octopus.pdf
2009--batching_design_pattern.pdf
2010--upperware_resources.pdf
2011--improving_styx_high_latency.pdf
2012--octopus_upperware_based_system.ps
2012--personal_pervasive_environments.pdf
belt.pdf
@dubh @iskandrian clearnet alternatives, that is