@OcapiProgramme the ruins of the Indus Valley Harappan civilization showed how the city's human waste was routed to outside the city, no excess water involved. do you want go back 3000 years in time?

@tetrislife
Are you deliberately trolling and arguing in bad faith or do you really imagine that we would do things today without improving whatever was problematic 3k years ago.
If it's the latter, don't you think you could easily search how today's methods compare to ancient ones and find they don't lead to sanitary issues?

@tfardet Actually, I was not sure if the pre-colonization past had been discounted as a source of good ideas. It is clear that it shouldn't be. Post-colonial ideas like mixing lots of clean water with feces are obviously terrible ideas, while the Indus Valley civilization thrived precisely because it valued critical resources like water and didn't condone mixing with feces.

@tfardet Sanitation is a red herring evolved out of medieval Europe's history of dumping feces out the window. Did either pre-Islamic Egypt's cities or pre-Latin South America's cities have sanitation problems?

Going back 1000's of years is not a globally bad idea.

@tetrislife I really don't know where you got this from.
If you have references, I'd be interested, but as far as I know, water has always been the go to when population density hits city-like numbers (see e.g. daily.jstor.org/the-early-hist).
It's obviously hard to be sure, but it seems sanitation was always an issue (at least in the toilets, but not only, especially when floods hit).
Contrary to what you seem to imply, we can now do much better than sewage, while maintaining high sanitary standards.

@tfardet well, you are pointing to sources, but they mention 3 examples. 2 are of flushing excreta to water bodies (a bad idea not known to be in vogue in pre-colonial times in Asia or Egypt or South America); 1 of those examples atleast uses bath water for flushing, which modern sanitation systems have regressed from. The 3rd example didn't move sewage to water bodies.

A capsule on sanitation systems going back 1000's of years is at
youtube.com/watch?v=ZGHSOMPzZ0

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@tfardet probably a point to consider accepting is that modern designs are a regression from past designs, and we could adopt past ideas (with proper attribution even though they weren't released under Creative Commons licenses 1000's years ago).

@tetrislife I don't really understand where you get that from.
In the first part of the video you linked, the problem is clearly mentioned.

1. Many cultures we know of practised open defecation and knew that excreta and clean water should not be mixed.
2. As population increased and aggregated into cities, the only method they found was to use sewers.

Ancient knowledge was good, they were not stupid (anywhere in the world, btw), but big cities came fast and they could not cope with them.

@tetrislife In the 2nd part of the video, the speaker asks "what if Indians had stayed connected with ancient knowledge?".
But when she says that "if engineers had stuck with Vedic knowledge, they would have invented ecosan toilets", it looks to me like wishful thinking.
Good sanitation systems is much easier to devise if you have a lot of recent knowledge and ancient knowledge could not easily (and historically, did not) deal with the new problem associated to the emergence of cities.

@tetrislife Today, our common knowledge enables us to design toilets that separate urine and feces, without using water, then let us transform these for agriculture in ways that combine eco-friendliness and good sanitation.
But it requires the ability to process large volumes and masses that were difficult to deal with in the past.
So it's not about going back Xk years, but to move towards better practices (which look a bit like old ones but are facilitated by recent knowledge and techniques).

@tfardet I was just pointing out that even something as conceptually simple as using bath water for flushing in a bathroom wasn't part of modern design. So there is a proven tendency to discount past systems and look to make the new shiny.

The "Indians would have invented ecosan earlier" point is difficult to argue for; colonization has made just survival a question in many regions.

@tetrislife I meant to say is that one should avoid glorifying anything: current system are not necessarily better than old ones on many accounts but old ones are also far from perfect, especially in our current settings.
Using bath water for flushing is better than using clean water, but it's far from ideal.
New source separation methods, which isolates urine from feces, and do not use water are a much better way to obtain valuable resources that you can then more easily reuse in agriculture.

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