@amerika @thor

Yeah, what concerns me is the media will pick up on say racism (even 1 or 2 comments) and then some how twist that to imply all of mastodon is like that

@zleap @thor

They're one-issue voters. Either you're with their plan -- worldwide market socialism, civil rights, diversity, and bureaucracy -- or you're the enemy.

@amerika @thor

We need a plan for some sort of damage limitation to shut the critics who can't be bothered to sign up and stay long enough to learn what goes on here.

@zleap @thor

I don't think this is possible. They're going to say whatever they want.

I'd stick to core message: we're the anarchistic free zone where people can express themselves without limitation, so you WILL be offended and you WILL get over it shortly ;)

@amerika @zleap @thor The beauty here is that it's like a real life social gathering, say a party or a pub. You wander around, until you find people you think are interesting. They might like you, they might not. The conversation might turn to something you dislike, but you can just wander off and talk to other people. No feed algorithm will keep on shoving more people who sound like the ones you briefly met, into your face.

It can be hard to find friends, but it's easy to avoid the worst.

@brian @zleap @thor

I like that ideal, but the downside is that we are forever wandering, or find a small clique and get trapped there.

Culture matters.

Facebook just takes it to a bad place, like McDonald's and Coca-Cola does, by choosing what a plurality will not criticize.

@amerika @zleap @thor Yeah, I haven't met "my" crowd on here yet. The only accounts related to people I know IRL, I found through other channels. Moving to fedi was, for me, like moving on my own to a new town. Don't know my way around, don't know anybody, not sure where the best places are.

@brian @zleap @thor

I think it's part of the problem. I can see the appeal of Meta: a place like this needs a topography, so you can go visit a forge or a fletcher and see what type of people hang around there.

Generally, I find that there are lots of randoms from no particular type that I think are interesting, and follow them.

Over time, it's like building up a keyring of interesting people... unlocks other doors.

@amerika @brian @thor

Good point, I am just going to keep making posts about the James Webb Deployment, right now there are about 3 people who are taking about that,

I am not driven by number of likes so 3 is fine for me, the posts are there, if someone searches for #jwst they will find related posts, from me and others so can follow further.

@brian @zleap @thor

You've met Paul and Thor, but here are some other interesting people:

@sim
@Jar
@pensees
@dew_the_dew
@p
@rasterman
@basadeskaiser
@LadyMont
@Sapphire
@deprecated
@D00B
@dubh
@pyrate
@PlipO

That'll get you started (and provides an excellent opportunity for the worst "hellthread" of all time).

@brian @zleap @thor @sim @Jar @pensees @dew_the_dew @p @rasterman @basadeskaiser @LadyMont @Sapphire @deprecated @D00B @dubh@collapsitarian.io@PlipO@noagendasocial.com No offense but I've never seen @pyrate starting a hellthread before

@ehhh @basadeskaiser @rasterman @p @D00B @Sapphire @brian @thor @deprecated @dew_the_dew @pyrate @zleap @sim @pensees @Jar @LadyMont

You're right; that's a well-behaved user.

But these users are not selected for their starting of hellthreads, just for being interesting.

It's hard to navigate this place without a map. I think @blog made some great ones awhile back, but they're visual, not clickable and all that.

Maybe an image map? heh

@ehhh @amerika @D00B @Jar @LadyMont @Sapphire @basadeskaiser @brian @deprecated @dew_the_dew @p @pensees @rasterman @sim @thor @zleap I've tried. I've got my piece on loli.

@pyrate @basadeskaiser @rasterman @p @D00B @Sapphire @brian @thor @deprecated @dew_the_dew @ehhh @zleap @sim @pensees @Jar @LadyMont

"Loli" is anime images of underaged people in nude or sexual poses?

A weird kink, but at this point I get more excited over fixing a lawnmower than another set of deceptive internet mammaries.

@pyrate @basadeskaiser @rasterman @p @D00B @Sapphire @brian @thor @deprecated @dew_the_dew @zleap @sim @pensees @Jar @LadyMont usually yes but they don't have to be nsfw

@ehhh @basadeskaiser @rasterman @p @D00B @Sapphire @brian @thor @deprecated @dew_the_dew @pyrate @zleap @sim @pensees @Jar @LadyMont

That's reassuring but generally I hate small children because I hate humanity, or at least most of it.

@amerika @ehhh @rasterman @p @D00B @Sapphire @brian @thor @deprecated @dew_the_dew @pyrate @zleap @sim @pensees @Jar @LadyMont dealing with children will make you mature faster.
Trust me, you don't have to like them, you are not supposed to like them, the whole purpose of dealing with children is to make you the adult in the room.

@basadeskaiser @rasterman @p @D00B @Sapphire @brian @thor @deprecated @dew_the_dew @ehhh @pyrate @zleap @sim @pensees @Jar @LadyMont

I agree. I like the good ones.

Most of them are horrid brats like the adults that produced them.

I'm an equal opportunity standard distribution hater like Elizabeth Bennet: I recognize that most of the world is tard and scorn it appropriately.

@amerika @rasterman @p @D00B @Sapphire @brian @thor @deprecated @dew_the_dew @ehhh @pyrate @zleap @sim @pensees @Jar @LadyMont thr good ones will still misbehave and fight each other.
Yo see their cringe will force you to mature faster and it will do you good.
If you have the opportunity get exposed to kids, play with them or something.
It will do you good on the long run.

@amerika @brian @zleap @thor @sim @Jar @pensees @dew_the_dew @p @rasterman @basadeskaiser @LadyMont @Sapphire @deprecated @dubh @pyrate @PlipO the P stands for Pedophile

@D00B @basadeskaiser @dubh @rasterman @p @Sapphire @brian @PlipO @thor @deprecated @dew_the_dew @pyrate @zleap @sim @pensees @Jar @LadyMont

A Fedi alphabet...

A is for Autoeroticasphyxiation
B is for Battered (And Fried) Women
C is for Communism
D is for muh digital penis

@amerika @brian @zleap @thor @sim @Jar @pensees @dew_the_dew @rasterman @basadeskaiser @LadyMont @Sapphire @deprecated @D00B @dubh @pyrate @PlipO

@brian @amerika @thor

I have added the mastoidon m logo and my fedi id to my new business card, people will see it and may be curious to try and find out more, and may even join, in which case they can follow and keep in touch.

@zleap @brian @thor

I keep posting relevant Fedi links to Gab, Gettr, and Wolfballs.

@amerika @brian @thor

We have a culture of non culture perhaps.

@zleap @brian @thor

Anticulture is a hallmark of modernity.

@amerika @brian @zleap @thor When I came here, the fediverse already had a culture. With more people and mastodon, it has changed over time. But it was mostly a small culture where people supported free software and talked about technology/programming. A few other things were created too. Then the wave came that had me in it, looking for something exactly like that. We were leaving the centralised social medias behind, didn't want to worry about being banned, rules galore and other scummy practices twitter.

The fediverse when it was smaller appealed to people like me that saw what was wrong with places like twitter... then mastodon came and brought that twitter culture with them. Except they wanted a place without nazis, something they had more control over. Hence you see things like block lists and people being more block happy. Perhaps the problem is that social media doesn't scale well. You don't want huge popularity, but rather smaller communities with culture in them. When I first came here, I thought that bringing more people here would solve everything. Other people agreed back then, wanting to spread free software to everyone. It has only made the problems worse on here. I have felt less happy/healthy for it. I don't think I am alone in this. I don't know if it can be solved. It may just be a people problem.

@sim @brian @thor @zleap

In my view, people want two things from social media:

1. A constant feed of news and entertainment
2. A place to meet or socialize with people like them

@amerika @brian @thor @zleap Could be.

But I'd also add that some people want more control and others want more freedom in those interactions. When I first came here, I needed the extra freedom after being on twitter which was restrictive and controlling, filled with algorithms. Now I'm not so sure what the answer is after seeing what has become of the fediverse.

@sim @brian @thor @zleap

In my view, culture is the answer.

We don't need rules-by-software.

We need people who are more active in pushing the place toward some commonality and some interest in promoting its own.

@amerika @brian @thor @zleap It makes me wonder... what can I do in this direction?

@sim @brian @thor @zleap

Hellthreads produce culture. So does posting quality content, which you already do.

I think it helps to also engage people across a wide spectrum. Most of the Fedi is totally atomized, and while we need decentralization, we also need "meeting" somewhere in the center in socializing and what we discuss.

@amerika @brian @thor @zleap Yeah. Posting more quality content was something that I wanted to see on the fediverse more since the degeneracy is so common and I decided unconsciously that I should at least contribute in this way over time. Would be great to see more content like this and to interact with the people contributing in that way.

@sim @brian @thor @zleap

I think the two go hand-in-hand, since our problem here is that a lot of the content is regular updates, and some of the exceptional stuff gets lost in the flow when no one interacts with it enough to boost it.

As I said: the Fedi is run by hellthreads.

@amerika @brian @thor @zleap I hadn't thought about hellthreads as a signal boosting element so that more people see the thread. Oftentimes it seems like it drowns the thread out. But having people respond to the exceptional stuff does help to get it out there.

@sim @brian @thor @zleap

Not just signal boosting, but bringing people together on a topic that is of interest, even if edgy.

@amerika @brian @thor @zleap It certainly brings people together. I still wonder about the quality of it. If that is what I really want to see for my own threads. At some point, I think the thread becomes unreadable so people don't bother.

@sim @brian @amerika @thor

I agree, encouraging more people to enable their site using activity pub would be good to, as this allows federation. This is only really 1/2 that story as it really helps to interact with those who are commenting on posts.

@sim @brian @amerika @thor

I think there is an advantage to havcing self hosted, small instances for a few people, family or small community who just want to connect with each other.

I have said before, more people brings more positive interaction but also negative interaction. I think that is a people problem.

@zleap @sim @brian @thor

The fact is that we need chanels, categories, and tags. These are all sorting methods.

People want stuff about what they are interested in, and the Fedi response is to do that by node.

For example, a politics channel, or a social channel.

Within that, people need topics, such as far-Right, far-Left, etc.

And then, tags designate specific threads, which on the Fedi get dropped, which is sort of sad.

We're not yet at an ultimate communications system for humans.

@amerika @zleap @brian @thor Hmm. Aside from having groups, one way to include this feature is for the admins to have sort of a public bookmark area that people can browse. Although that would likely change over time, maybe every week. You'd still have the problem of those threads disappearing but maybe at a slower pace. Of course, you can curate your own bookmarks yourself for this, and keep going back to those as needed. But you can't really sort it well.

@sim @brian @thor @zleap

If I were a node admin, I'd like to have the ability to designate certain users, hashtags, and threads for public consumption.

I like your idea of "public bookmarks": like a bookmark list, but forms the default view of the node.

Then you just need a node list and a node browser. I'm sure there's a node discovery protocol or something like it in ActivityPub.

@amerika @brian @thor @zleap Yeah. I mean, it wouldn't be a huge stretch to include public bookmarks because we already have a bookmark feature. Ideally, we would have groups that would fit this well. The way it worked on GNU/Social and by extension qvitter would have been ideal for what you are looking for. Can't recall if you could pin posts though, I think that feature came along while I was still using it. But posts from the group would be sent to group members and appear on their personal timeline. You could also browse the group page. It used ! as the tag if I recall now. It just seems to be hard to make something like this for pleroma, that I suppose works across platforms so people on mastodon can see and use it too.

@zleap @brian @amerika @thor I think you are right. Although I don't know if platforms like twitter would lend itself to family things. Facebook seems to work for them though.

Yeah, I think we are suffering from the people problem. People bringing their usual baggage and attitudes with them here rather than adapting to idea of community here.

@sim @brian @thor @zleap

Or just that there's not a community yet.

@amerika @brian @thor @zleap But there was a community. It's just that we've now gotten a bunch of people that don't care about that community. They see the fediverse just like twitter and use it that way. As I said, in the earlier days, the community gathered around the idea of free software and there was a lot of programming talk. Now the signal for that has been drowned out, even though people still do talk about it. Because other people don't care for it. But that is the culture, that is the values of the fediverse. When I came, people were a lot more open to introducing those concepts to people. They probably still would if people that came here were curious enough to learn about it.

@sim @brian @amerika @thor @zleap nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger

@sim @brian @thor @zleap

Was there?

A community is more than people in the same place.

There have to be regular interactions toward some kind of end.

Fedi is just getting to that point now.

@amerika @brian @thor @zleap In a way, from what I remember reading back in the day, this was the goal... making the fediverse something that a lot of people would use. Introducing free software and decentralisation to everyone. People weren't just in the same place, they were talking about free software and the fediverse, where they wanted to take it. I think this meets what you mentioned here, at least. I don't know if it is strong enough to unite everyone... maybe not. Most people here would probably be considered normies in comparison to this.

@sim @brian @thor @zleap

As far as I can tell, the free software community kills everything it touches.

Too much posing. "If you want software to actually work, jUsT wRiTe yOuR oWn."

It's not much different than any other volunteer field in this regard...

Ego always comes first with humanity.

To have a community, you need a function, not just preaching.

The Fedi has the same problem the far-Right does: nothing to discuss but a single topic.

@amerika @brian @thor @zleap Yeah. Unfortunately it is a people problem. People don't like to hear criticism either. Often it is more people doing what they want than thinking about there being a community here to take into consideration.

I don't think fork your own is a good response for a lot of people. It works well if you are a dev and know what you are doing. But not for the average person. I think there are attempts to make things more accessible though. This seems to be more the attitude for pleroma.

I can't argue with the single topic. The fediverse and its values are the uniting factor for the culture. But this doesn't necessarily lend itself to something more, like you'd hopefully get in community. If you don't care about that, and now a lot of people don't here, then you are left to wander and treat the fediverse just like you would twitter. I don't think things were introduced well, and it doesn't help to have certain devs treating their software like their babies to do with as they please rather than focusing on the fediverse community.

@sim @brian @thor @zleap

It seems to me right now that most of our values are defined by the platform: decentralization and free software.

That's not a culture, or even a community.

One is slowly being forged, but for now, the apathetic nature of this loosely-linked coalition threatens its ability to develop further.

@sim @brian @thor @zleap

Fedi reminds me most of Gettr.

Small groups have formed and participate in "trains," or posting lists of other users to follow.

But no one interacts much except with people who are already big celebrities from somewhere else.

On Fedi, it seems as if most traffic is bot-generated, basically people posting updates for others to ignore.

This emphasizes the clannishness of nodes.

@amerika @sim @brian @thor @zleap yeah, the same post I send on twitter I would get 300 likes in the first 30 minutes...

Here on the fedi, god bless if I have two! 😆

Accounting the user difference and such, I get much more interaction on Twitter

@The_Quantum_Alpha @brian @thor @zleap @sim

I think this is why Twitter et al persist and the fediverse is generally in denial of this.

It's the challenge.

The real big challenges are usually hidden behind near-universal denial.

So the question is, how do we build a culture that encourages interaction instead of apathetic tolerance?

@brian @amerika @thor

I guess like speed dating for finding people with similar interests, employment , friends, or more.

I still think it is worth adding yourself here in the categories you're interested in

https://communitywiki.org/trunk

The more we share that page it may help and then at least keeps things consistent.

@zleap @brian @thor

Good idea. At least give people a starting point.