Hamas is terrible. They are terrorists who murder innocent people.
The Netanyahu government is terrible. It abuses and kills Palestinian civilians and facilitates the theft of land.
I disagree with people who say that Gazans aren’t responsible for Hamas and those that say that Israelis aren’t responsible for their government. These are the governments that the people installed. Plenty of Gazans supported Hamas. Plenty of Israelis supported Netanyahu. Those are facts.
@kyozou
You had me nodding until you got to the list of people you disagree with.
This means that you believe that all Gazans in 2006 are alive today and nobody was born in Gaza between then and now.
It also means you think faction coalitions represent all Israelis when they don't. Here's a reminder that Trump got the GOP nomination the first time around with only a third of primary voters thinking he was any kind of a good idea, so therefore there are no "RINOS" in the GOP.
A plurality does not a majority make, and no majority constitutes a totality.
@kyozou Dead wrong and you have but to look at Myanmar for the posterboy as to why that's not true. But it's only one of hundreds of examples.
And it's why "collective punishment" as if EVERY citizen voted in any given government is responsible is an international war crime.
It is a CRIME. That kind of thinking is criminal..
@ClaraListensprechen4 I have been pretty clear that collective punishment is wrong as is any deliberate killing of civilians. But just because collective punishment is wrong, does not mean that the citizens of a country aren't responsible for the actions of its government. As recently as 2021 a poll found that 53% of Palestinians support Hamas. It's no more reasonable to pretend that Hamas has no support among Gazans than it is to pretend that Netanyahu hasn't been supported by many Israelis (although this may be changing).
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87
@kyozou
I make no pretenses, not even the one that you're making, that all Gazans installed Hamas in 2023 when they haven't even had an election since 2006.
@ClaraListensprechen4 The only thing it "means" is that you're missing the point. Citizens of country are responsible for the actions of their government, period. It's a fiction to pretend that government is completely divorced from the people. Russians are responsible for what the Putin government does. Chinese citizens are responsible for the actions of the Chinese government. When you install a shitty government, allow that government to keep power, and that government does shitty things, you don't get to claim that you're blameless. As I said, that goes for Americans, too.
That doesn't mean that it's OK to kill civilians; but it does mean that as citizens we're responsible for our government, and if we don't like what our government is doing, it's our responsibility as citizens to change the government. There are all kinds of examples of noble people in this world who have done just that.