Louis Ingenthron @LouisIngenthron@social.cleverlibre.org

@allenu You can download LLM training models now that are anywhere from small (1-3GB) to huge (100s of GB). In theory, if you focused the training on one programming language or framework, you could modularize it and keep the sizes much smaller.

And I won't be surprised when there are competing services from various vendors offering these files.

@allenu That'll still be true. You'll be able to download a training file with data from the internet. It'll probably even come with a service that has an auto-updater. The bigger the file, the more local resources it'll take, but the better the suggestions will be.

@Janika What'd they do now?

@ahltorp I was saying "on the contrary" to your claim that games are not intended to have these weird behaviours.

As for your other point, I think the line between experimentation and exploitation is razor-thin, both in games and in AI prompting. This can be evidenced by the number of people trying to "break" AI by having it create, for example, a picture of Mickey Mouse holding an AR-15.

@ahltorp On the contrary. Both the developers and the players tend to *embrace* these weird behaviours because they tend to make the most memorable experiences.

Here's another example: In Skyrim, they had a system specifically for stealing. If you steal something quietly, while nobody is looking, you get away with it. They even simulated sight lines to make sure you were unseen.

But here's where it gets interesting: This was a world with full physics. So, players figured out that you could just place a big object in front of a person's view, and then steal from them.

Then players discovered that they could *put a bucket on the NPC's head* and it would block the sight lines and you could rob them blind.

This became a meme. It was such a beloved bug that they specifically chose not to fix it in future installments.

But really, it wasn't a bug at all. It was just players doing something that the developers never expected, by mixing the stealth, NPC animation, and physics systems in an unanticipated way.

@ahltorp Yes, that's in the same vein. But it can also create *stories*. For example, in GTA, you could just be going about your business doing a mission when all the sudden a police chase barrels past you and a police car knocks you off a bridge, but then you get a wanted level because the AI decided you rammed them instead of them ramming you, and now you're on the run from the cops for something you never did and feel oppressed by them and and and...

The point is, each of these systems were designed individually, but when they come together with a human agent interacting with them, magic happens. Our brains fill in the blanks and collaboratively, between our imagination and the game's random number generator, a story is born.

@Richard_Littler Yes, precisely. Do not ascribe motive or intent to inanimate objects.

AI isn't taking jobs. CEOs are replacing jobs with AI.

@ahltorp @robertnorlyn @Richard_Littler I'm not talking about exploits or cheating. I'm talking about people creating their own fun by using the interconnected systems of the game's simulation to play it in ways the developers never expected.

For a fairly benign example, look on YouTube for "GTA Stunts".

@ahltorp @robertnorlyn @Richard_Littler Just because a world is hand-crafted doesn't mean it doesn't have room for emergent gameplay. Think of Grand Theft Auto. Have you seen some of the videos of people taking the systems in that game to ridiculous lengths that were never even imagined by the developers?

@Richard_Littler You can absolutely take a photo of the work of other artists.

Just as you can train a generative AI algorithm on non-exploitative material.

Neither is inherent to the medium.

@ahltorp @robertnorlyn @Richard_Littler Except many are content generators. That's where we get terms like "emergent gameplay". And that's before you get to games that ship with tools like map editors.

To put a finer point on it, I think a good analogy would be something like RPG Maker. It provides a framework and the tools to make old-school 8-bit RPGs. It even provides a degree of artwork. So, the user only needs to create their story and hook everything up and they have a full RPG.
For both generative AI and RPG Maker, the software is doing the heavy lifting based on a little bit of creativity from the user, and in both cases, they generate a unique output based on that input.