Will the British ever stop referring to the NHS as “the envy of the world”!
The NHS is not and probably never has been “the envy of the world”. No one in France, Luxembourg, Belgium, Germany, Spain, Italy, or any other civilised European country envies Britain the NHS. Why, because their own healthcare systems are substantially better and more efficient than the benighted NHS.
Nobody in Luxembourg, where I live, would be prepared to wait weeks for an appointment to see a GP! If that was the case there would be outrage; there would be rioting in the streets! If I need to see a GP, I expect to be seen the same day that I phone for an appointment or the next day. If my complaint is urgent then I most certainly will be seen on the day I phone for an appointment.
No one waits for months or years for necessary surgery in any of the countries I have listed, even if the surgery is classed as routine and non-urgent.
I was reading today about a patient suffering from stage four cancer in the UK who has been waiting since late November for the results of a CT scan. I have been unfortunate enough to need a number of CT scans and an MRI, recently. When I go for a scan, I wait for 30 to 40 minutes after the procedure is completed and I am presented with a DVD containing the scan, a software utility enabling me to visualise the scan and the radiologist’s report. The idea that any patient would have to wait for days, weeks or months for the results of any investigative procedure, is totally alien to most cultures in Europe!
This is pretty typical of the way things pan out here:
During a routine colonoscopy, the gastroenterologist found a mass obstructing part of my intestines. He took a sample of the mass to be biopsied and gave me a prescription for a CT scan with contrast medium and a comprehensive set of blood and urine tests. This was on a Thursday; on the Friday morning the blood and urine samples were taken and I received the results during the afternoon of the same day! The CT scan would also have been done on the Friday except that I had to stop taking certain medications that “clashed” with the contrast medium they had to use, so the scan could not be done until the Monday. The results of the biopsy didn't come back until the Wednesday morning however late Wednesday afternoon, I was sitting with the surgeon discussing the surgery that would be needed to remove what, by then, we knew what is a benign tumour.
The surgeon apologised profusely as he was unable to operate for around 5 weeks because the COVID pandemic had caused an enormous backlog in non-urgent surgery. He explained that had there been any doubt that the tumour was non-malignant, I would have been scheduled for surgery that week or the following week, but as it was quite clear the surgery was non-urgent, I would have to wait.
When I was admitted to hospital for the surgery, I was in a ward with just two beds in it and with its own private bathroom. In fact, the second bed was unoccupied for my stay.
Private rooms or two bed wards are the norm in Luxembourg as indeed they are in most other countries in Europe.
Following the surgery, I was asked to get back on my feet as soon as possible and so I did a fair bit of wandering around the hospital. Wards/rooms that were empty, had their doors left wide open so it was easy to see what the occupation rate was like. On the floor that I was on which was a surgical area, only around 30% of the wards were occupied; this is in pretty stark contrast to the near 100% occupancy rates in the NHS!
Most of the nursing staff were not locals but commuted in from Germany, France or Belgium. I asked one or two of them why they came to Luxembourg to work rather than working in their own countries to which the answer was “because we are paid so much more in Luxembourg than in our own countries and because in Luxembourg, we're given so much more responsibility than in our own countries”.
How does that compare with your experience of the NHS?
@Paulos_the_fog a few years ago, on one of the forums for immigrants who live in France, a Brit asked what the best health insurance for a visit to the UK (contrary to popular belief, non-residents can't just rock up and get treated for free).
I said "an open return ticket to France".
A friend of mine who was in reality living off grid in Spain and had been for years, was able to access NHS treatment free of charge by claiming to be a traveller (thus explaining why he had no fixed abode and no GP). As he was dying of cancer at the time, I guess the NHS just took his word for and didn't press the point!
However, it's always worth remembering that treatment by a GP and by A+E is free of charge whoever you are UK resident or not! Although I imagine trying to get an appt with a GP if you aren't registered with the practice you choose is pretty much impossible now!
@Paulos_the_fog it isn't. if you are a non-resident at gp or a&e they can ask for your details and send you a bill. It very much depends on the place but more and more are doing it because it's an income stream.
@Paulos_the_fog you'll still get treated, but you'll get a bill. (Just to clarify!) 🙃
This is an extract from the NHS.co.uk website - the horse's mouth, you might say!
A+E is free so long as you don't require admission!
"Services that are free to everyone:
Some services or treatments carried out in an NHS hospital are exempt from charges, so they're free to all.
These include:
A&E services – not including emergency treatment if admitted to hospital
family planning services – this does not include abortions or infertility treatment
treatment for most infectious diseases, including sexually transmitted infections (STIs)
treatment required for a physical or mental condition caused by torture, female genital mutilation (FGM), domestic violence or sexual violence – this does not apply if you have come to England to seek this treatment"
I'm actually quite surprised - I knew A+E services were FOC, but I didn't know about all the rest. OK, treatment for infectious diseases obviously makes sense - you certainly don't want people with say, TB going untreated, that's for sure!
Family Planning services - now that does surprise me!
@Paulos_the_fog they're in an impossible position. On the one hand, bill and recover (but they don't have the staff to do that), on the other, don't bother (and that costs then money).
The whole thing is set up to make the NHS fail so they can flog it.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make - this is not new, it has always been the case. There has never been a charge for A+E treatment no matter who you are or where you come from nor indeed for emergency visits to GPs.
@Paulos_the_fog I just checked the UK government site. Treatment is payable in the absence of an EHIC. With an EHIC, it gets recharged.
Jeeez you are hard work!
An EHIC is needed only for treatment that is chargeable; i.e. that is not already free! All treatment in A+E is completely free to all comers whether they have an EHIC or not - there is no charge made for it! Moreover, I believe it has always been like that from the inception of the NHS.
@Paulos_the_fog ok, you believe that and I'll tell my cousin who actually got a bill that it didn't happen. Beliefs are great. Beliefs are what got Britain into its current mess.
Facts are better.
If anecdotal evidence from your cousin trumps written proof from the NHS website itself, I am so very, very glad that I'm not one of your students!
You are clearly one those poor unfortunates whose ego is so enormous that they cannot bear to be proven wrong and as such, I pity you and those close to you!
@Paulos_the_fog actual evidence that something happened is actual evidence that something happened. That is distinct from what you might believe should have happened or what someone else might say should have happened.
Shame that you had to resort to insults and ad hominem attacks in the end but I suppose it was inevitable.
@jamesmb
I'm right you're wrong and/or anecdotal evidence is not proof of any kind other than of your "I cannot be proven wrong" massive ego.
I have provided you with a direct quote from the NHS.uk site whereas your saga of your cousin provides no proof, no detail and no evidence whatever to back it up! Maybe he underwent treatment that was not within the normal scope of treatment in A+E. However, as everyone in A+E is fully aware that all treatment delivered there is completely free, I doubt very much if anyone would even have thought of invoicing as even a possibility!
