@mguhlin
Absolutely, and again really appreciate the doc you shared. Almost wish we could expand on the reasoning piece.
I wonder if creating a similar document to yours with one or two specific examples would be useful?
For example, one frustration and challenge I often experience is around evolution or other theories in science that often have short definitions that students can recite without deeper understanding, and we as teachers don't always support that deeper understanding.
So I could imagine a question asking students how they think sharks/squirrels/trees etc will evolve over the next 10000 years due to climate change. Students can then make claims (future), bring evidence (past evolution and evolutionary theory) but then would need to explain and detail environmental changes, how selection works, gene pools at the species level etc for their reasoning. Not just "they will evolve to meet environmental needs"

Relatedly this also reminds me of the questions we ask students to do C-E-Rs on, and how these questions sometimes are rote and factual and not really CER worthy.

@ZingerLearns That sounds like a great idea (expanding on the reasoning piece). Share a link, and I'd be happy to link to it. One of the reasons CERs fascinate me is how folks are unfamiliar with them, and even experienced folks approach them from different angles. Some think we should use them more, others less. i also want to explore how CERs are used in other content areas.

Are you familiar with the NGSS alternative to Scientific Method and CERs? The exact phrase is eluding me. :-)

@mguhlin
I think that raises other points and other considerations.
NGSS itself seems agnostic to these approaches. Of course you have the DCIs, CCCs, and SEPs. Some of the SEPs alighn with these approaches. Some people use CERs, some POEs, I hope most use focal phenomenon. I do sometimes worry that there are so many approaches and wonder if they are used in principled ways, it's not just the tool, but how it's used.

@ZingerLearns I hadn't heard of POEs, so this explanation was helpful - https://arbs.nzcer.org.nz/predict-observe-explain-poe

I wish things had always started out with focal phenomenon (https://amplify.com/blog/science-classroom/the-power-of-phenomena-in-the-science-classroom/) but I missed out on that. Usually, it was reading a science textbook. :-(

Isn't it funny how people come up with new acronyms and stuff? It all works to inhibit the one thing we want...critical thinking about what's happening around us and why/how.

@ZingerLearns Another conversation someone started on another social network...CER is not the preferred approach. Instead, they rely on having students make pre/post models.

More on that: https://docs.google.com/file/d/1BWrdl67Sfak9MJ-YFtXUlnedM5MzHe2d/edit?filetype=mspresentation and https://docs.google.com/file/d/1Dl0Wsmm64BGQWSWyxx7NVAFBxXigCqrL/edit?filetype=mspresentation .

I'm still looking those items over and can't really speak to their efficacy or not, but then, that is what some folks are using.