I became a #vegetarian (aspiring #vegan) almost exclusively to contribute to reduce animal #suffering.
With time, I realised that the _other_ reasons to avoid animal-based foods are surprisingly strong, too.
🧵
1️⃣ Land usage:
[Crops for human consumption make up only 23% of all agricultural land worldwide, and yet they provide 83% of all calories](http://hannahritchie.com/convergence-nutrition-sustainability/).
Plant-based calories (and proteins) are much more efficient and require way less land and water than meat and dairy.
🇳🇱
@tripu This misses a very important point... While almost all land suitable for crops is also suitable for animals the reverse isnt true. In fact it is quite often the case animals are raised on land explicitly not suitable for crops. I dont know the exact breakdown, and that would be important to evaluate this fairly. But I know from my interaction with farmers that a great many of them raise their livestock on mountainous land not suited for crops and use fertile farmland mostly for crops.. Even when the land is flat and not mountainous it is often unsuitable for crops due to the makeup of the soil (too rocky, no good drainage, etc)
@freemo @tripu I would guess the real answer to this would be "we should try, but profits as a measure are preventing that".
Measuring something is often a problem, but especially if those measuring are profiting from it.
Full disclosure: i am eating animals, and aware i am doing something wrong here.
I would like to improve, but everything feels like fighting windmills. If i recycle, how many rich people commission a ride to space for fun, rendering it useless? This is not the only thing i would critizise, but it is endemic at this stage.
@freemo The problem i see is people oriented for profit are leading this, with no regard for the future.
Sometimes, there are great leaders, planning ahead. I do not see that right here, right now. Only those in power clinging to it.
If there was an inkling of an attempt, i would hold hope. I do not see that.
@freemo Dwelling a bit longer on this...
It is patently absurd that we are dwelling on who is right, when there is no actual attempt at improving our situation by anyone in power.
Trying and failing, that is human, and that cannot be helped.
Not trying and keeping others from a life worth living, that is vile.
That is all i wanted to say. Welcome to my ted talk.
@freemo And i sit here, and i wrote all the reasonable things i could think of. And i read what you wrote again. And i see you are trying to see the good in the world.
"The activists trying to see the good in the world"
Do you see how pathetic that is, for us as a species?
There are people trying to save us, with bad data and no weapons to speak of. Getting beat up, maybe killed. (yes, maybe killed. german police is not that much more delicate than american)
The other side is people with rank and entitlement, saying it is clear the activists are terrorists. If this did not come out clearly where you are, it is here. They are saying that.
I was told Noam Chomsky is a bad source lately. By someone purporting to be nice, not a maga weirdo.
It would not do to say that we are fucked, would it?
>"I would like to improve, but everything feels like fighting windmills."
When I was younger and more outspoken, I did what I could to encourage others to adopt a vegan diet. It seemed hopeless at the time, however, I'm pretty sure that I had a hand in Bill Clinton adopting a vegan diet many years later.
Today it is easy to have a vegan diet. Back then it was much harder; no options in restaurants, etc.
@Pat @freemo @tripu That is both inspiring and disheartening.
On the one hand, success.
On the other, bigger evils lurk still.
A big thing i seek is proportionality. If i do a little nice thing, will it improve the world?
And i want to say: victim blaming is not cool. Not to you, pat, no connection. But we need to see that blaming people for small mistakes is not the right thing to do when there are greater evils.
Stop the most damaging problem first.
> _“I would like to improve, but everything feels like fighting windmills. If i recycle, how many rich people commission a ride to space for fun, rendering it useless?”_
I encounter that line of reasoning very often and, respectfully, I think it is bogus.
A couple ways to see that:
* When a billionaire wastes a gazillion dollars and tons of CO₂ to have a space walk, he is not “rendering your recycling useless”. Those things don't cancel each other out. A world with wasteful space walks where @admitsWrongIfProven does not recycle what is sensible to recycle is _worse_ than a world with wasteful space walks — full stop.
* I bet [you are “rich”](https://howrichami.givingwhatwecan.org/how-rich-am-i). If you avoid your responsibility, you are providing excuses not to do their part to the next in line (mid-income people, not to mention poor people).
* You would not dare use that argument when talking about big evils. You do not hit your spouse, steal money from your neighbour, throw chemical waste in a river, or torture lizzards — but you know for sure that there are lots and lots of serial killers, child molesters, criminals, war lords, genocidal rulers, etc. You do what is right, because it's right. Why then should we accept that argument for little evils?
/cc @freemo
@tripu @freemo
You certainly are right that i am - on a global perspective - rich. It is also correct that others doing bad things does not mean one should follow suit.
But it is beside the point. I never argued that eating meat was ethical, merely that i was not able to stop so far.
Just that i am relatively rich does not mean i am without fault, it does not exempt me from struggles.
What i described with the sentence you cited was meant to show that i am struggling. Not in a fight-for-your-life way, but in a struggle-to-be-happy way.
It takes a lot more energy to get motivated to do something if everything around seems to fall apart. I do what i can, i have several things going that are good.
Easy pickings first, i never wanted to fly, i never did. Having a car was more effort than it was worth, car gone. Electronic devices? Used as long as possible, no replacements for status symbol reasons. "Things" in general, i am as practical as possible.
But that specific fault of mine about eating meat remains. Because i can't find the energy to change.
Sure, others have it way worse. But that does not make it easier for me.
@admitsWrongIfProven Yes, those profiting are going to be a bit bias in this regard for sure. But lets not forget the activaists trying to save the world, as desirable as their goal may be, are equally bias and going to produce bad numbers in the other direction (this very info-graphic is an example of that as I pointed out).... in other words, the problem in getting accurate data is not one of profit so much as one of bias.